Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

Hey there,

I think that the xp from maps at level 92 onwards is too low (average map level is 79/80 for t15's) which would make the 10% loss feel harsher as you get 1-2% xp per map at level 94 (not using xp tablets). If it's on average 1% xp then you would need to run roughly 100 deathless maps to go from 94 to 95.

I don't think it's just the xp loss here though that players are frustrated with, we lose the map, the bonuses on the waystone point and the xp. I am totally fine with the xp loss part of this.

As a semi-casual player, there is no way I will reach max level with the current state of on-death mechanics.

I have 2.2k hp and 1.3k es (with grim feast and unique helm es caps at 2.6k) full res capped incl chaos with 75% evasion and I still get blapped. That's instant 4k plus damage.

I am currently level 94 with 500k kills and 385 deaths, fully ascended, so I have definitely tried the game, with various iterations of my build. I am rolling my maps and only running mods which are easy too. I don't want to change my class and play something I don't enjoy just to progress either.

The feedback on the forum is what GGG will see and digest, with the majority of it being the same, as you said in the OP with threads about xp loss, rarity, etc.

If you put it like this, 100 people are playing your game, 99 of them say the same thing and 1 player says something different. You have a choice to make next, do you take what the 99 players said and do something, or do you take what the 1 player said, the outcome of your choice will determine if you have 99 players left, or 1 player left playing. (exaggerating of course but i'm sure you get the point)

Personally, I am not having fun with the current state of the game, for a few other reasons. As such I will go and invest my free time into another game for the time being.

I think with your approach to this thread, try to understand from perspectives of different tiers of players, new through to hardcore, etc. If it's enjoyable, people will play, if it's not, people won't. As you are enjoying it, you will keep having fun, as I am not, I will stop playing.

There are always 2 sides to a fence.

"

Blasphemous84#2190 wrote:

"

iMirageX#4580 wrote:

10% exp exist for a reason and it does not matter if you think its archaic system or not.

This is a feedback forum. If people don’t like something, this is the place they come to leave feedback on it. If there are numerous threads about one particular issue, perhaps that’s a sign to GGG that something should be looked at.

Honestly it’s kind of weird that a grown human being has gotten so upset about people leaving feedback on a feedback forum.

While we’re on the subject, a lot of things in this game feel archaic and out of place in an ARPG in 2024. The horrendous inventory system. The total lack of movement skills. Magic find being more desirable than any other stat. Minions getting constantly stuck in doorways and dying. The uninspired boring loot drops. The list goes on.

These things should be brought to GGG’s attention so they can make the best game possible. That’s the point of early access.

its not about feedback....its all been said...its about stamping feet on the ground...yelling im right your wrong. And never listen. At last to the op stating he likes the mechanic...this thread is redundant selfish blabla...go ahead the same way

I don't think the xp penalty is necessary with the 1 portal system, but i'm also really expecting the 1 portal system to go.

XP rate is a separate issue, I just hit 91 and a few tarded deaths aside I'd say it took the same time to hit 90 as It would for me to get 97 in PoE1 - the 79/80 limit on maps and breach being responsible for half your XP really slow the leveling pace.

Is that OK? Not sure, it doesn't really matter to me but I know it does to some players - I never bothered with 100 in PoE1 either it just happens or it doesn't.

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

"

mrxkon#5764 wrote:

Which action has no consequence if I may ask ? I'm curious.

None actually, if you include all kind of consequences.

When you cast a spell you lose mana.

The goal from my perspective is to prevent player to overspam spells.

So what is the goal behind XP penalty ?

In my opinion, it's for you to be more cautious and learn all the mechanics properly of each mob or boss that you encounter and roll and wait and move away so on so forth, instead of just rushing through everything because "death doesn't really matter".

Now you're going to most likely say that "but there's 100 bugs, and white trash can 1-shot me which beats the purpose".

I'd say that you're correct ( again in my opinion ), and that's where the term "EA" kicks in, and I suppose we all hope ( meaning both sides on the topic here ) that all those actual bugs and unwanted interactions are properly patched down the road so the XP loss is fully justified and the only reason for it to happen is, well, "you".

If you still don't like it when/if that happens, can't say much more at that point other than that this game wasn't designed for you and your preferences.

But it was a GGG decision to do it that way, you can either like it or not and nobody is forcing you to continue playing of course ( and I'm not saying this in a condescending tone, it's just the reality ).

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

"

Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index#1288 wrote:

If level 100 isn't the achievement, then why do you care about the exp loss?

Because all the hours I spent gaining exp are wasted for no reason. That is all.

I played for 4 hours for no reason if I die and lose it all.

but if you care about xp, then getting lvl 100 is an achievement

"

Trixorx#4808 wrote:

Hey there,

[...]

I don't think it's just the xp loss here though that players are frustrated with, we lose the map, the bonuses on the waystone point and the xp. I am totally fine with the xp loss part of this.

As a semi-casual player, there is no way I will reach max level with the current state of on-death mechanics.

I have 2.2k hp and 1.3k es (with grim feast and unique helm es caps at 2.6k) full res capped incl chaos with 75% evasion and I still get blapped. That's instant 4k plus damage.

I am currently level 94 with 500k kills and 385 deaths, fully ascended, so I have definitely tried the game, with various iterations of my build. I am rolling my maps and only running mods which are easy too. I don't want to change my class and play something I don't enjoy just to progress either.

The feedback on the forum is what GGG will see and digest, with the majority of it being the same, as you said in the OP with threads about xp loss, rarity, etc.

If you put it like this, 100 people are playing your game, 99 of them say the same thing and 1 player says something different. You have a choice to make next, do you take what the 99 players said and do something, or do you take what the 1 player said, the outcome of your choice will determine if you have 99 players left, or 1 player left playing. (exaggerating of course but i'm sure you get the point)

Personally, I am not having fun with the current state of the game, for a few other reasons. As such I will go and invest my free time into another game for the time being.

I think with your approach to this thread, try to understand from perspectives of different tiers of players, new through to hardcore, etc. If it's enjoyable, people will play, if it's not, people won't. As you are enjoying it, you will keep having fun, as I am not, I will stop playing.

There are always 2 sides to a fence.

You are a smart person, and while there is two sides of the fence, the people complaining here aren't on one side or the other, no ; they actually impale themselves on the fence right in the middle, forcing themselves to play a game they hate. The want level 100 but don't understand if level 100 has value in the first place it's because it's really hard to obtain and thus a good achievement. Remove XP penalty and level max become something else.

I accept and defend the existence of the XP penalty. That doesn't mean that I enjoy dying and losing XP, too. I dislike it too, but I know it exist for a reason, a good one at that. Having no penalty on death would plague the game with a lot of others issues.

For instance, if everybody could reach level 100 while playing without any risks whatsoever, then level 100 would become the expected baseline for the rest of the game's existence. I'm sure glad it isn't, as that would lead to new content being exclusively developped according to that.

Nobody actually need level 100 to play and enjoy this game. Some people here -really want and need it- but that's just their entitlment and ego speaking.

You can play as much as you want, and have fun, and if you don't die much, level up slowly but surely. Reaching high level isn't made for everybody, that's why it a good game for everyone. In your case, you often get killed even though you have high life and es, but it's also mainly because you play Evasion, which actually doesn't stop one deadly hit to go through your %dodge chance and kill you. You could instead stack other forms of damage redirection/mitigation/avoidance and die less often (but get hit more often).

-

In another hand, concerning feedback ; I think you are wrong to think that any devs should listen to any people complaining. In reality, people having fun and playing the game rarely feel like they need to voice positivy and congratulate the devs for making a good game (I do it to try to balance things out). They often leave a thumbs up in steam or whatever, but don't feel the need to list all the things they enjoy as a post on a forum. That's a generic human behavior for a lot of practice, that you can also find in restaurant for examples.

But one person not enjoying something ? Oh boy you'll hear him scream and rant and complain and ask for his money back and threaten the business to be sued or to die. And when you have a big enough sample, you have this shitstorm. It's maybe only 5% of the players that hate PoE2 game's design but will scream their lungs everysingle day here on the forums or on reddit because they had a bad experience (while still continuing to force themselves to play the game somehow) ; leading to a apparence of negative press ; which is far from the objective and unanimous truth.

And generally, it's not even that the product is bad per se, it's just that the product (something that exist in reality) isn't what the customer thought he was going to have (something imaginary) ; and the people complaining will continue to claim they deserve this imaginary product even though it was never advertised as such, or even given to them.

The business cannot magically create this product, and driven by greed, if they feel like the negative outburst from the few extremely vocal unsatisfied customers is making them a bad publicity and therefor force themselves to meet the needs of everyone, they lose everything that made their product good, interesting, and enjoyable ; like Blizzard did for years for the sake of $$$.

GGG doesn't do that too much, and stay on their ideas and values of what's a good game, and that's great. They sure listen to constructive feedback, but not the entitled ones that think the product should be something extremely different. If they did, every systems built one upon the other would fall like dominos.

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

"

mrxkon#5764 wrote:

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

So if you
Couldn't respec at all

Couldn't create a new character

Couldn't change a piece of gear

Would it be bad game design or just "actions have consequences" ?

I'm not sure how is this relevant now, or if we entered the realm of replying for the sake of it? But to be as fair as possible I'll answer.

If you don't have gold, you can't respec. The action here would be you spending it elsewhere, or not gathering it in the first place I suppose...

There's 24 character slots, if you take up all of them, well the consequence is that you can't make yet another.

If you're carrying a piece of gear with specific requirements that you're missing, you can't equip it can you?

None of the above are "bad" or "good" designs by definition, they are just designs. If you like them or not, that's a different story and it's simply an opinion. Opinions vary though and that's the beauty of it :) .

It's relevant because some actions have no consequences, some do, and the harshness of the consequence varies. The question I had was "why dying have this consequence ?" What's the purpose of it.

There are multiple reason and im pretty sure there are more than i can think of. 1 being make people actually work on their build to actually progress instead of just equipping a weapon do some damage and call it a day since they will eventually progress/level up regardless of any defences as long as they deal damage.
2 It would be pointless to have any sort of race events since there will be no penalty for having a crappy glasscannon no brain build since u dont get punished and the race becomes a meaningless act of clearspeed and who can play for most hours in a row cause there is no conseqences from dying.
3 lvl 100 would just be meaningless and not any sort of proof of u having a good build which actually much to younger casual players surprice matters to many veterans of this genre
4 the game looses its purpose if there are no consequences, which i know a huge part of the younger generation are not used to anymore cause they dont teach consequences anymore.

Im sure GGG have even more reasons and i might too when i think it through but to be honest there would be absolutely no reason to get good at the game if there was no xp loss on death or consequences and this will kill the game way faster than the other way around. Besides im sure the game is better off loosing a few casual players crying about xp loss if it means it can stay true to the genre and its vision, afterall the true fans will stay poe 1 already showed this and so did D2 back in the days. And its the true hardcore fans that buy the supporterpacks not the casual gamer that plays for 50 hours

"

mrxkon#5764 wrote:

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

"

mrxkon#5764 wrote:

Which action has no consequence if I may ask ? I'm curious.

None actually, if you include all kind of consequences.

When you cast a spell you lose mana.

The goal from my perspective is to prevent player to overspam spells.

So what is the goal behind XP penalty ?

In my opinion, it's for you to be more cautious and learn all the mechanics properly of each mob or boss that you encounter and roll and wait and move away so on so forth, instead of just rushing through everything because "death doesn't really matter".

Now you're going to most likely say that "but there's 100 bugs, and white trash can 1-shot me which beats the purpose".

I'd say that you're correct ( again in my opinion ), and that's where the term "EA" kicks in, and I suppose we all hope ( meaning both sides on the topic here ) that all those actual bugs and unwanted interactions are properly patched down the road so the XP loss is fully justified and the only reason for it to happen is, well, "you".

If you still don't like it when/if that happens, can't say much more at that point other than that this game wasn't designed for you and your preferences.

But it was a GGG decision to do it that way, you can either like it or not and nobody is forcing you to continue playing of course ( and I'm not saying this in a condescending tone, it's just the reality ).

PoE1 isn't in EA and suffers the same issue with one-shots. Pretty much ALL arpg's suffers the issue with oneshots. Making it a fault in the way the genre as a whole works.

1. there's a lot of games with build and gear, and no XP penalty. Yet players still dread death and try to do better. Do better damage, better defence. Dying in a game is losing and people dans like losing already even with the extra kick in the nuts that is XP penalty.

2. Why not having XP penalty only for race events then ?

3. Level 100 would still take a lot of time. And dying every two rares is not gonna make leveling faster. More people would be level 100 for sure. But it would be people with at least 20 hours a week for a month or two. Which is a lot time invested for somebody to be gatekeeper.

4. I'm a "veteran" and i don't like XP penalty, it's not just young generation. I thought it was bad with D2, it's just a matter of personal preference. My player ego doesn't like dying at all, I prefer winning, corpse running is not fun and not winning, maybe I'm the only one against XP penalty thinking this way.


It would be nice to have a ggg take on XP penalty, that goes deeper than "you need some kind of penalty for dying".

Exp penalty is not the problem.

Bad Boss/Rare mob balance is the problem.

Bad league mechanics are the problem.

Exp penalty is not the problem