As one of the oldest Rarefinders in PoE i suggest this solution to the rarefind situation.

I hate item find, I do not see any negative consequences of removing the stat

+1 OP

This could be an opportunity to innovate with loot drop mods. There's the Necropolis mod pool fro example, or new stuff to allow you a measure of target farming.

How about armour has more chance to be dex ? Or a helmet ? or weapon to be a mace, etc, etc

I think they will just nerf rarity. That way it's just a bonus instead of having to be a requirement.

I would really have loved for rarity and quantity to stay in the game but it needed to change I have fought against its removal for so many years under constant assault by armies of those devoted to this cause.

But i don't see a path forward for it anymore without massively bloating the rarity/quantity system, Its hurting the game and the community.

It needs to go back to basics and become a net positive for everyone like it used to be, it was celebrated in the old times and we had etiquette.

My favorite thing to do was loot bombing people, I'd look around for new players leveling in various spots in the storyline and use my high IIR values to farm tons of rares and uniques ahead of them dropping everything in the next zone keeping it alive and once they reached merveil or some other boss i was at i would join their party and help with the boss increasing the loot and then afterward they'd go to the next zone and their whole screen would be filled with uniques and rares.

While I was initially convinced [that at least currency conversion via] MF / Rarity was the devil-incarnate I think the real problems go MUCH DEEPER.


While I do think that things are not anywhere near where they should be I do think that the combination of ALL the following hurts the game when they are concentrated in a few builds:

1. Rarity / MF
2. Zoomy builds [blink with cooldown tech? very high move investment]
3. Builds with good damage & screen wide damage projection & CC
4. Builds that don't have much gear affix pressure so going MF doesn't hurt
5. Builds that can afford to spend a minimum of attention to layered defense
6. Breech rewards
[possibly some other multipliers that slip my mind]

Given that the above are all, effectively, loot multipliers what might otherwise be a somewhat balanced mechanic can run wild when builds can add layer after layer of [good] multipliers to loot.


Hot Take: I bet on my [very very bad] build I could run 1000% MF from gear and I still would not be anywhere as loot-efficient as someone with 100% MF that's zoomy, can screen clear instantly, can make breech monsters [even lords] beg for mercy, etc...


As such I don't think MF is the sole cause of the problem -- it just exacerbates existing inequities in builds that can only be addressed by a complete REDESIGN of classes and how the above things can interact.

hi SS!

as an MF hater, i initially disliked your idea. but after giving it some thought if ggg decides to expand on it rather than a simple "add mf on trinket" it can be a very good idea.

what i mean by expanding it, is we need to look at the mods.

heist mods is a good start such as having a chance to convert 1 currency to another or chance to double a certain currency.

but to me what i would want is more CONTROL over what i get.

for example "weapons found have 200% increased chance to be a 2handed mace"
"armours found have 100% increased chance to be armour based"

this will reduce player reliance on trade.

i would also suggest trinkets to have 4 affixes. making them have more RNG so that it remains desirable. on top of that, players should be able to gradually unlock up to 3 trinket slots.

MF could roll on trinkets, but would be lower max roll compared to a specific chase drop.

for example you could roll
10% increased rarity (maxlevel)
or
30% increased chance to find weapons
20% increased chance to find waystones
etc.

as for party play vs solo play. my "probably unpopular" demand would be for party play, the leader needs to choose whether it's free for all or allocated. for free for all, all trinket bonuses are added and averaged out ignoring any conversions (such as increased chance for weapons found to be 2handed maces). while for allocated drops, when a drop is allocated to a player, it will roll based on that player's trinkets. no additional drops for party bonus.

i m indeed bias as solo play has inherent disadvantage over party play to begin with. especially in poe2.

in parties, enemies have 6 different targets, which helps with survivability. you also get the benefit of players specializing in priming or consuming primed effects or specialized cursers. 2 summoners can run different auras from the get go giving huge bonuses to their party/army.

and in poe2 if a player dies, the map is not wasted. others still can continue on.

i dont understand from a balance pov why people in a party still get MF bonuses on top of all that.

if anything solo players need more bonuses.

I rly don't understand community point of broken MF: seems like ppl, who says that this is broken and OP had never any try to build such charcter.

1) MFers are fast and effective screen-wide cleaners - truth. How much investments you have to put in?
Spark sorc temporalis - 550 div invested atm, 120 h of live gameplay
Herald Deadeye - 400 div invested atm, 200 h of live gameplay

2) Extremly-hard to find ur items: to make things work you have to hit each aspect of your char perfectly: MF\ defence\ DPS. For exapmle, there were only ONE ring in the market, that was boosting my deadeye and the seller had some issues with his mentality. I've hunted exactly this lot from exact guy for a 3 days and night. It was a rly legendary quest to buy it from him, starting price was 50 div, buyout price from me was like 70 div, cuz as I mention before - the seller has some mental probs

3) Proper setup of atlas:
First of all, I have to find the correct place with at least 5-6 towers around to build like 80-100 item quantity for next 5-9 maps. It usualy can take from 1 to 3 h of gameplay

4) Waystones setup:
To get profits I need waystones with exact mods (and without build-bricking one or annoying, like burning ground). For example, at least 20 quantity and 90-120 rarity and then distill it (like 100 ex+). The price of such map is 1 div\ 1 waystone via one discord-community.

Now tell me, still think MF is broken or I should be rewarded for all my time- and resource- invsetments?

"

Lynnwaisse#4198 wrote:

I rly don't understand community point of broken MF: seems like ppl, who says that this is broken and OP had never any try to build such charcter.

1) MFers are fast and effective screen-wide cleaners - truth. How much investments you have to put in?
Spark sorc temporalis - 550 div invested atm, 120 h of live gameplay
Herald Deadeye - 400 div invested atm, 200 h of live gameplay

2) Extremly-hard to find ur items: to make things work you have to hit each aspect of your char perfectly: MF\ defence\ DPS. For exapmle, there were only ONE ring in the market, that was boosting my deadeye and the seller had some issues with his mentality. I've hunted exactly this lot from exact guy for a 3 days and night. It was a rly legendary quest to buy it from him, starting price was 50 div, buyout price from me was like 70 div, cuz as I mention before - the seller has some mental probs

3) Proper setup of atlas:
First of all, I have to find the correct place with at least 5-6 towers around to build like 80-100 item quantity for next 5-9 maps. It usualy can take from 1 to 3 h of gameplay

4) Waystones setup:
To get profits I need waystones with exact mods (and without build-bricking one or annoying, like burning ground). For example, at least 20 quantity and 90-120 rarity and then distill it (like 100 ex+). The price of such map is 1 div\ 1 waystone via one discord-community.

Now tell me, still think MF is broken or I should be rewarded for all my time- and resource- invsetments?

Are you operating under the assumption that there isn't diminishing returns on equipped rarity gear?

I believe nobody cares about rarity anymore since it was determined you don't need much to hit the soft cap on returns

"

Lynnwaisse#4198 wrote:

I rly don't understand community point of broken MF: seems like ppl, who says that this is broken and OP had never any try to build such charcter.

1) MFers are fast and effective screen-wide cleaners - truth. How much investments you have to put in?
Spark sorc temporalis - 550 div invested atm, 120 h of live gameplay
Herald Deadeye - 400 div invested atm, 200 h of live gameplay

2) Extremly-hard to find ur items: to make things work you have to hit each aspect of your char perfectly: MF\ defence\ DPS. For exapmle, there were only ONE ring in the market, that was boosting my deadeye and the seller had some issues with his mentality. I've hunted exactly this lot from exact guy for a 3 days and night. It was a rly legendary quest to buy it from him, starting price was 50 div, buyout price from me was like 70 div, cuz as I mention before - the seller has some mental probs

3) Proper setup of atlas:
First of all, I have to find the correct place with at least 5-6 towers around to build like 80-100 item quantity for next 5-9 maps. It usualy can take from 1 to 3 h of gameplay

4) Waystones setup:
To get profits I need waystones with exact mods (and without build-bricking one or annoying, like burning ground). For example, at least 20 quantity and 90-120 rarity and then distill it (like 100 ex+). The price of such map is 1 div\ 1 waystone via one discord-community.

Now tell me, still think MF is broken or I should be rewarded for all my time- and resource- invsetments?

I've defended MF more than most and im saying yes it is.

at the bare minimum it shouldn't be affecting currency anymore, it didn't in PoE1 (aside from quant) and i would run as much as 800%++ it wasn't very powerful and they made it broken in PoE2, people feel so pressured to have it and it causes conflict with culling in party.

Culling strike needs to be outright removed from the game, its only right to fame was that it enabled some niche mechanics such as (rarefinding mostly) and later on became a dps checkbox for a lot of people.

Change is needed, I don't know exactly what that change should be but we can definitely discuss some options here if you don't like my idea.

This is a heated discussion. I'll just post this one shortly here, not to disrupt too much.

# Average out item rarity stat between party members
Because item rarity is a sacrifice from damage and defenses, players who do have item rarity on their gear have to compete hard for kills against players who are not sacrificing damage for item rarity. Thus we have rarity culling and group play tactics to allow rarity players have their last hits. Not that prominent in PoE2 yet I guess, but it will come. I really feel like this is not how we're supposed to play, so as a suggestion, I would like if the item rarity stat was somehow shared and averaged out or something in the party, thus allowing item rarity stat to contribute to party play the same way other stats do.