An open letter to everyone participating in EA - Feedback Etiquette!

if they gave respect to the player then they would deserve to be spoken to properly. as of right now GGG FIX YOUR SHIT. no communication. no fixes specifically for consoles and not one word about them. thats disrespect.

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itz TAXI#8502 wrote:

if they gave respect to the player then they would deserve to be spoken to properly. as of right now GGG FIX YOUR SHIT. no communication. no fixes specifically for consoles and not one word about them. thats disrespect.

They don't owe you sh*t. Don't be entitled.

Your attitude IS direspecful.

I'm always for constructive feedback and less negativity.

But I gotta admit that part of it IS GGG's fault.

They can't release something not even remotely balanced like the trials and expect people to not be frustrated.

Trials aren't challenging, they are just 3x easier for ranged and that's it. GGG didn't even playtest it.

And they have 10 years of experience already.

As for the rest, yeah I agree. Some people get too mad over simple things and things that aren't finished yet.

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

1) Passive aggressive, you alrdy know why they don't.
2) Pure ignorance (innocence ?), but then why are you even bringing something that you have no clue about, straight up ass talking. Talk about PoE2 and leave 1 out of the topic.
Both ways end up aggressive nonetheless (And where we are back to previous topic, you blame someone for being aggressive, being aggressive yourself).
Does that justify OP's tone ? Definitely not. Doesn't make yours right though.

Sorry, but that's just not true at all. It's like saying I'm not allowed to ask questions or make suggestions anymore. Intention always matters. When I asked the question, I clearly asked why he spents so much time with a game, that evokes SO much hate and disgust for him. He clearly said that he hates everything about the game and that didn't sound healthy at all for me. And that's why I suggested, that he will probably have a much better (and healthier) time playing PoE1. Especially since PoE2 will be different from PoE1, which was the one thing GGG clearly said beforehand.

Another example for intention and context:

"Ugh, this guy is black"
or
"This guy is black"
or
"This guy is black, I like it"

The first one has definitely a negative and rasist accentuation because of the "Ugh", while the second can just be a verbalization of what I perceive and therefore is neutral. And the latter even has a positive accentuation, because it sounds like I like people with a dark skin color.

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

Also you are right, context matters. That's why it's fine when any OP comes and vent on the forum with his own post full of emotions. You can read and agree, or disagree and leave it as it is : venting.
Now, when you (I mean anyone, not necessarily AceNightfire here) come and comment that post, you better keep your own opposite emotional response out.
On the principle that it's ok to do mistakes, but if you wanna judge others mistakes, you better not do it yourself first (cf previous topic).

And as you know, I got your explanation and left the discussion, because I was in the wrong. I'm a person who is able to see his own misbehavior and I'm able to adjust then.

The thing is, many others here just don't make one or two very emotional, provocative and aggressive posts, but do it all the time. And it does never help in any discussion at all (like in the previous topic you have mentioned). So my own misbehavior is a good example, that there should be better ways to give constructive (negative) feedback. I mean, look at the threads with 20-50 pages. It feels like 80% of the content there is just players flaming each other. And then players expect that GGG keeps track of all the good posts in such a thread? I guess this is nearly impossible, unless they have multiple people who read the forum all day long.

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

I clearly quoted you on my first response ;)
Say what about thought experiment ???
A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory, or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment#See_also
Also, even if I let this slip. What I said could happen. GGG could very well decide they got enough data, and don't want to publish future changes, keeping the hype for the launch.
So basically you dismissed my thought experiment because the "hypothesis" is unlikely according to your own bias (back again to previous topic).

The experiment again for you :
- Hypothesis : we won't have any change in PoE2 EA, before the actual release of the full game, 6 or more months later.
- Consequences thoughts : I cannot imagine having so much ppl playing PoE2 in that state in 6 months.

Conclusion : Regardless how ppl like PoE2 or not, without changes, ppl wouldn't be eager to play after 6 months in the same state. So advising ppl to go back to PoE1 is just dumb and or ignorant at this very point in time.

And here again, context matters. It's not like I go around and tell everyone who is unhappy with the game to go back to PoE1. I also never told the guy in this topic that he should go back. I asked him, if it wouldn't be better for him. So I only asked this one specific guy here, since he said he doesn't like anything at all about the game and he explained very specific his strong negative emotions towards the game. Giving someone a healthy advise is definitely not dumb or ignorant and also not passive-aggressive. Ofc someone could missunderstand what I tried to say, but I had good intentions, when I asked that question.

Furthermore, I clearly suggest here, that people should still give feedback - especially negative feedback - and not just go back to PoE1. But right now, that negative feedback is very often delivered in a very provocative/aggressive way and those threads rarely have a good constructive discussion going on. In the worst case, even get closed by GGG.

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

All of that said, I agree with you. That's why I specifically quoted the PoE1 thing. You're not answering any of my points with that part.
I also took the time to quote/reply to you, because you make big sense accross your posts, so I have a chance getting my point accross, instead of trying to reason trolls. But there are little things you should try to avoid (you and others, obviously).
And bringing PoE1 in the discussion is one of them, for the reasons I told about above and before.

I'm not entirely sure about leaving PoE1 completely out of feedback. There are two reasons:

1. GGG wants to have a different gameplay with PoE2. Feedback helps that PoE2 develops in a direction that ensures this "difference".
For example: Some seem to be sad, that endgame feels the same as PoE1: It's all about high clear speed and movement speed/skills, since a slow paced gameplay in T15+ maps is deadlier then just zooming through the maps. And I think in these cases, comparisons and metrics are important for GGG, because GGG doesn't need 2 games that feel the same in endgame. This would just split the community and wouldn't be a financial benefit for GGG. Even worse: it would be a financial disadvantage, since they have to work on two games now, but all PoE2 did, was splitting the community in two parts. My guess is, that GGG wants to avoid that.

2. Another reason is, that some people who like the fast gameplay from PoE1, will be better off with PoE1 in the end, unless GGG decides, that PoE2 becomes PoE1 with better grafics. I think this will be especially true for people, who don't like PoE2 at all. Because some people say, that PoE2 needs some tweaks to feel good, while others say, that PoE2 is in total a very bad experience. And for the latter group, PoE1 will still exist, which is good.

But I think the statement "Then go back to PoE1" should never be used on someone who gives constructive feedback in a polite manner.

Get out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat.

"

And I think in these cases, comparisons and metrics are important for GGG, because GGG doesn't need 2 games that feel the same in endgame.

This can be the case if GGG simply wants to attract new people luring them with tactical gameplay, nice up-to-date visuals, modern animations and so on - just to involve them into a classic braindead zoomzoom. Because you can't sell someone a game, showing them zoomzoom from the very start - it simply looks terrible and stupid. One can start enjoying it only if he is completely submerged in a long long process as an actual player, when animations, graphics, sounds, etc stop being an important gameplay experience for him anymore.

Actually all ARPGS have been advertised this way since Diablo 1. Just take a look at those old promo vids. EThey are slow, they are tactical, nice visuals, good animations, everything is readable, nothing stupid is going on. But later though...

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

99% of the conflict is the complete lack of GGG stating the intent of the game, and direction they want it to go.
Both in pacing, in endgame, in difficulty, and in reward systems.

Currently it's a mess.

To spice it all up, the internet is well know to cater to misery. And nothing breathes misery like displeased gamers that can't get their vision appeased, or worse; players that are happy and terrified someone will take it away from them.

All of this would be resolved with GGG doing a post or interview stating what sort of game then want in the outcome.
And what players they want to cater too, because you cant please all of us unless they release a very modal approach with multiple game modes and difficulties.

No. It's not actually. Sure, GGG could quell the outrage by making a statement. But the issue isn't GGG. It's the players and their entitlement.

This is where the fighting is happening. And I think what really needs to happen, is that people just need to take a break from the forums and the game for a week or two and see what the first patch is.

People are straight up saying the game is dead 3 weeks after early access launch because there's not enough end-game content. Literal drama queens.

Feedback should be just that, feedback.

Honestly, I think GGG would be better off closing the forums, and then implementing a feedback solution in-game. So that people can freely give feedback, without the fear of someone attacking it, or them.

Also has the added benefit of getting feedback from people who would never touch these forums with a 9001 foot pole. Seeing some of the people here is actually scary.

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itz TAXI#8502 wrote:

if they gave respect to the player then they would deserve to be spoken to properly. as of right now GGG FIX YOUR SHIT. no communication. no fixes specifically for consoles and not one word about them. thats disrespect.

Demands respect.

"as of right now GGG FIX YOUR SHIT."

Shows no respect.

"

AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

[...]But I think the statement "Then go back to PoE1" should never be used on someone who gives constructive feedback in a polite manner.

Fair enough, I'll keep it only to that part, because I feel the rest of the post is arguing over something I'm not arguing for in the first place.

My point was quite simple, and you are actually close to it.

I think the statement "then go back to PoE1" should never be used, period.

Because you should know it's not an option right now, and if you don't, then you're not constructive either, talking about something you don't know.

Pretty sure I wrote that already (lazy to check it up at that point tbh), guess we over escalated the argue for no real reason, whatever.

Thanks for the discussion anyway.

I didn't know chat GPT was capable of being unctuous.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

But the issue isn't GGG. It's the players and their entitlement.

Don't want entitled players? Don't make a game. It's that simple.

People who care about the game are going to give direct feedback. The more they are invested into the game, the more emotional that feedback will be. Trying to police people's attitudes or telling them to leave the forum is pointless.

Maybe you're the one who needs to take a break.