GGG, gotta change that new 'one attempt per waystone'.

Here is another example. You try a map with a boss, low tier map that you have been doing with absolute EASE. Not difficult at all. You get 1 shot to a boss because you failed to dodge one of his big skills. But then you lose the boss, you don't get to try again. Which means you don't get to practice, and then you may not see this boss again for a long time, and when you do, you don't remember how you died last time.

This is only an issue for people who don't have 10 hours a day to play. But those are most players. That's why it's an issue about time and difficulty is not the problem. We can make the game very difficult without making it feel like a waste of time.

I understand people do not like that, but i like 1 try per map. Makes me feel like what i do matters instead of just throwing myself at shit im not ready for.

And argument "when you die you loose hours of grinding exp" is real only when you are high level and grind only low level maps. Im almost lvl 89 with current char and i still get loads of exp from t15 maps

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WeaverDuck#7380 wrote:

I understand people do not like that, but i like 1 try per map. Makes me feel like what i do matters instead of just throwing myself at shit im not ready for.

So we should only play maps we're sure we won't die?

Hint: Challenging content means you might die.

Dying is already a penalty. No need to add more punishment on top of that.

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Ardziv#1837 wrote:

Here is another example. You try a map with a boss, low tier map that you have been doing with absolute EASE. Not difficult at all. You get 1 shot to a boss because you failed to dodge one of his big skills. But then you lose the boss, you don't get to try again. Which means you don't get to practice, and then you may not see this boss again for a long time, and when you do, you don't remember how you died last time.

This is only an issue for people who don't have 10 hours a day to play. But those are most players. That's why it's an issue about time and difficulty is not the problem. We can make the game very difficult without making it feel like a waste of time.

All map bosses I have seen so far a campaign bosses. Are there any new ones? I would say you can just go to the campaign and look at the boss mechanics their if inside the map is not feasible.

If it would get changed, it would only reward failing.

The only things that you lose when failing a map is the waystone, the extra content of the map and XP. Nothing else. You path on the atlas is not blocked. You can still insert a low level waystone, rush through the map to complete it and proceed with the atlas.

I got one shot by a boss yesterday, because I underestimated it's range. But that is such a rare case, there is no way for me to forget that until I see that boss again. If dying to bosses is something common for a player, maybe it would be wise to not do boss maps then. Here we are back at the fact that difficulty is 100% player decided. Boss maps are optional, no need to fight a boss.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

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Ardziv#1837 wrote:

Here is another example. You try a map with a boss, low tier map that you have been doing with absolute EASE. Not difficult at all. You get 1 shot to a boss because you failed to dodge one of his big skills. But then you lose the boss, you don't get to try again. Which means you don't get to practice, and then you may not see this boss again for a long time, and when you do, you don't remember how you died last time.

This is only an issue for people who don't have 10 hours a day to play. But those are most players. That's why it's an issue about time and difficulty is not the problem. We can make the game very difficult without making it feel like a waste of time.

All map bosses I have seen so far a campaign bosses. Are there any new ones? I would say you can just go to the campaign and look at the boss mechanics their if inside the map is not feasible.

If it would get changed, it would only reward failing.

The only things that you lose when failing a map is the waystone, the extra content of the map and XP. Nothing else. You path on the atlas is not blocked. You can still insert a low level waystone, rush through the map to complete it and proceed with the atlas.

I got one shot by a boss yesterday, because I underestimated it's range. But that is such a rare case, there is no way for me to forget that until I see that boss again. If dying to bosses is something common for a player, maybe it would be wise to not do boss maps then. Here we are back at the fact that difficulty is 100% player decided. Boss maps are optional, no need to fight a boss.

Your perspective matters less vs the majority. Most people will not remember the mechanics of any boss other than the last few they fought. At least until years playing the game. Sure if you play all day every day, you will remember things more because its fresher in your memory. I can't remember most bosses in the campaign, and going back to "check" their mechanics is no good (Where would I even go? how would I remember which zone they were in? They also won't do the same damage...). How about you let people try again and penalize the drop rate of boss? Something that makes it FUN rather than BORING. Most people complaining love the challenge btw.

Edit: What's the point of all this boss design if the best strategy is to simply avoid bosses until your character stat checks every boss? I thought we were supposed to dodge and practice?

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

So we should only play maps we're sure we won't die?

Hint: Challenging content means you might die.

Dying is already a penalty. No need to add more punishment on top of that.

Dying in a game where you simply respawn is absolutely not a penalty!

There has to be something you can lose or there would be no feel of accomplishment. Reaching level 100 for example. Without XP penalty everybody would reach it at some point with 0 feeling accomplishment. The way it currently is you need to invest in your character and make the correct decisions to reach level 100. You accomplished something.

You can simply chose your content based on your current priority. If you priority is leveling, run easier maps. If you priority is challenge, run challenging maps.

You can even combine those two. Run easy maps until level up and after that try challenging maps/bosses. In PoE 1 and 2 players have full control over the difficulty they attempt.

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Ardziv#1837 wrote:

Your perspective matters less vs the majority. Most people will not remember the mechanics of any boss other than the last few they fought. At least until years playing the game. Sure if you play all day every day, you will remember things more because its fresher in your memory. I can't remember most bosses in the campaign, and going back to "check" their mechanics is no good (Where would I even go? how would I remember which zone they were in? They also won't do the same damage...). How about you let people try again and penalize the drop rate of boss? Something that makes it FUN rather than BORING. Most people complaining love the challenge btw.

Edit: What's the point of all this boss design if the best strategy is to simply avoid bosses until your character stat checks every boss? I thought we were supposed to dodge and practice?

You only need to remember what you died to. If you did not die, you already killed the boss first try and chances are you will do it again. There is no need to remember every mechanic of every boss. Most mechanics are somewhat intuitive or telegraphed. The typical "don't stand in the red circle" from way back in WoW times.

So why would people not remember what they died to? Are you implying that people die on most bosses? Are you saying that people simply not remember one death? I am not sure I am following.

And again, bosses are optional. A player can chose to do a boss map or to avoid it. It is up to the player.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

And again, bosses are optional. A player can chose to do a boss map or to avoid it. It is up to the player.

So what's the strategy? When you see a boss node you put a waypoint tier 1 in it, go, kill yourself, and then proceed with an empty zone? You really think that's what they are going for? The game absolutely wants you to take on challenges and practice, but the problem is you don't get to practice if you only have 1 try. It's not about rewards (at least not from my perspective).

They will definitely change something about the way this works, the question is how long will it take for them to find the solution.

Forcing people to do low tier maps until they stat check all content and are able to faceroll and 1 tap the screen (like all streamers are doing now) is not a good game design. End game is already close to and in some cases, faster than PoE1.

EDIT: removed duplicate post

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

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WeaverDuck#7380 wrote:

I understand people do not like that, but i like 1 try per map. Makes me feel like what i do matters instead of just throwing myself at shit im not ready for.

So we should only play maps we're sure we won't die?

Hint: Challenging content means you might die.

Dying is already a penalty. No need to add more punishment on top of that.

Nope, you can die anywhere and thats awesome.

You should play maps you feel like you can beat (stat and your skill wise). You should check map modifiers and prepare your char for what comes, not YOLO all content without thinking. Some maps WILL counter your build to some degree, some can completely. They are random after all. Its up to you to decide if its worth trying, adapting your char, or reforging when map has crazy modifiers.

I had super juiced t15 map with evasive monsters and among other mods they had ~+40% extra: fire damage, cold damage and chaos damage. I had poor resistances at that time, guess what happened in the end even though i fought hard.

I took the risk, i failed. I didnt blame game for my decision making. Knowing which fights you may win is a skill too.

If you fail you are supposed to think why that happened and correct your mistakes. It works, unless you dont like thinking.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

Dying in a game where you simply respawn is absolutely not a penalty!

There has to be something you can lose or there would be no feel of accomplishment. Reaching level 100 for example. Without XP penalty everybody would reach it at some point with 0 feeling accomplishment.

Of course there's a penalty - you lost the time it took you to attempt the boss.

Leveling to 100 is still an accomplishment - you have to kill the bosses and level up to get there.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

And again, bosses are optional. A player can chose to do a boss map or to avoid it. It is up to the player.

You should want to challenge yourself against the bosses, not avoid them. If your design philosophy is Players shouldn't attempt bosses until they're overleveled and overgeared - your vision is the problem.