Why nerf Arsonist instead of buff other minions?

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Pathological#1188 wrote:

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BossOfThisGym#2062 wrote:

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

didn't you see the new support?

You cant use the command skill of storm mage or arsonist late game. Once you get resists + minion life, SRS is well above the threshold to use the arsonist command, even with infernal legion and feeding frenzy, its just impossible unless you delevel SRS to whatever threshold.

Storm mage is even worse, your skeletons literally never die outside of boss fights or an extremely insane breach which is getting nerfed next patch.

These command skills also have different typing than minions, my arsonists are 6 linked, only a single support works with their command skill as its not an attack. The damage is pititful, and it absolutely RAPES your mana bar. Its the most useless shit imaginable.

Other minions are so fucking bad, that even if they DOUBLED the spirit cost of arsonists, and HALVED their dps, everyone would still use them. Thats how bad the other skeletons are, its a complete joke.

Just be glad the nerf isn't that bad and that maybe they fix pathing so doing maps like augur or towers doesn't take minion builds 3x as long as anyone else.

It's ok, just go and trade your way to victory. That was you right? There's no problem that can't be solved with trade!!

Actaully ya, i dont have a +2 to minion amulet yet. 200-300ex will completely undo this nerf and get me back to where I was actaully better even, if i had 800ex a +3 minion amulet id be even stronger.

Have fun finding a +2 to minions 40+ spirit amulet with restances off the ground!

There is a whole lot of discussion about absolutely nothing. This is a minor damage nerf. Nothing more.

I play Arsonists myself. I prefer 1 button builds so I only use Fire Wall to trigger popcorn SRS. If I drop from 13 to maybe 11 or 10 Arsonists it's no big deal.

Every little change results in pages and pages of useless whining.

Please GGG, dont nerf too much you are destroying fun

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

There is a whole lot of discussion about absolutely nothing. This is a minor damage nerf. Nothing more.

I play Arsonists myself. I prefer 1 button builds so I only use Fire Wall to trigger popcorn SRS. If I drop from 13 to maybe 11 or 10 Arsonists it's no big deal.

Every little change results in pages and pages of useless whining.

its kind of a big deal when the only minion in the entire game thats even close to being viable gets nerfed, granted its only like ~20%, but thats like losing +2 gems levels almost.

Also SRS falls off pretty hard later on, its great for 30 spirit and always will be, but it does less clear than like 2 arsonists, youd be better off changing your 1 button to pain offering.

for minions to even clear remotely as fast as deadeye/stormweavers builds people are running you have to be incredibly tanky with good gear so you can run ahead and group up mobs and resummon them on top of the packs, going from 1 pack to 1 pack based on minion pathing/ai is painfully slow if you ever play a build that can actually clear well it will feel pretty bad.

There's no point of nerfs atm when there are so many bugs.

Game is unfun atm. Tired trade of exile.

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lupasvasile#5385 wrote:

Because GGG doesn't like minions. Instead of removing them completely (people would riot) they take this roundabout approach to force you to give up on them......eventually probably getting rid of them completely.

And, no, I'm not exaggerating. Everything minion related is treated as a plague by GGG.

Man, it's their damn game. They're the ones who made 1/2 of the Occult section skeletons.

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timnor#9068 wrote:

There's no point of nerfs atm when there are so many bugs.

Game is unfun atm. Tired trade of exile.

I don't think trade of exile 2 is going to be fixed anytime soon. Non endgame boss uniques that you find leveling/mapping are generally pretty awful, there is no benchcraft, you need more mods on gear (defense rolls actually matter much earlier) to make up for no life on passive tree, you can't really afford to not have chaos res since dying randomly hurts more in this game in terms of what you lose.

SSF is just in an extremely poor state, yes people are pushing 90+ and having a good time in SSF, but they got pretty lucky, some will just get hardstuck in low tier maps without capped res, let alone chaos, let alone getting the defense on gear + all that they need to progress.

We are also missing probably a dozen other mechanics that make SSF easier, but for new players, this wouldn't really matter since they wouldn't really be able to take much advantage of them, aside from benchcraft, without a lot of time in the game.

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evinta#2047 wrote:

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lupasvasile#5385 wrote:

Because GGG doesn't like minions. Instead of removing them completely (people would riot) they take this roundabout approach to force you to give up on them......eventually probably getting rid of them completely.

And, no, I'm not exaggerating. Everything minion related is treated as a plague by GGG.

Man, it's their damn game. They're the ones who made 1/2 of the Occult section skeletons.

They don't like minions because they make the game really easy, they tank for you, make certain mechanics a joke, because they have to clear well to compete with other skills they usually have disgusting single target as a side effect, and minions are either just completely busted or trash as a result. Not even mentioning the passive playstyle they hate players having access to.

right now minions are in an OK spot, but reliant on a single skeleton to perform. Its an amazing league start build because you can clear content with bad gear that would otherwise be impossible without a minion wall in front of you, but later on the speed at which you can clear maps, not because of a lack of damage or AOE, but terrible pathfinding is hurting them.

I've already bought gear to reroll spell caster just in case, but if arsonists get another round of nerfs, and pathing isn't fixed I just don't see the point in playing minions anymore, you'd be better off playing spellcaster type build since endgame what really matters is how many maps can you run an hour, thats going to be the biggest factor for currency generation, xp, etc.

I think a lot of people have only played a minion build, thought it was amazing they were suddenly doing content much easier, but don't realize just how slow it is until they bother to play something else or watch a stream/yt video with the stuff deadeye/stormweaver is doing, it would look like they are playing at 2x speed.

They are for sure not in an "okay spot".

Minions even with hella tank put into them die constantly.

Minion revive timer is horrendous and new minions that die just add to the timer instead of each one having their own respawn timer.

Minions die when they get further away, so they add to that timer.

Minions get suck behind walls in ritual and boss fights.

Minions get demolished in breaches and rituals.

Minions can't even walk through doorways and other small maps because GGG decided to make minion behavior like diablo 2 necromancer wandering through maggot lair.

Like there's some genuinely poor design choices, even considering it's an early access. It's weird that the dev team has a ton of experience coming from path of exile but they just make these clearly wrong design choices that make minions clunky and miserable to play.

AND THEN they nerf the hell out of it without even a single buff to anything else in the name of preserving build variety. But as it stands because of literally all the things I mentioned previously, all of the other minions are hot garbage.

Spirit costs on minions are inconsistent all the way across the board. Corpse generation for corpse skills aren't functional enough to do endgame content. SRS scales very poorly into late game and basically does nothing on their own. But people still take them because it's literally the only choice for minion players.

The problem with build variety and minions isn't that arsonists were broken. The problem stems from literally all of the other minions underperforming at a stupendously low level.

Did you get the res nodes on the tree for minions? Thy need those more than they need %inc life.

All my minions have 83% res, 63% chaos res, and 200% inc max life, 3% life regen. They dont ever die outside of boss attacks that are built to one shot. Granted I have +6 to minions on gear, but +5 is not too expensive to achieve, and +10 is actually possible.

+level to minion skills is the most important stat for summoner, it increases damage by over 10%, it increases life, accuracy rating etc.

Minions are awful in acts besides SRS, I know I did it too. But they do get much MUCH better. GGG needs to tweak them so new players that dont have + to minion gems early can actually fucking use them. They do not perform without it.

Honestly the whole thing where we are getting insane amounts of plus to gem level on gear seems counterintuitive to being a game that is suppose to be new player friendly compared to poe 1, becuase all the gem levels you can get on gear now makes a giant difference. And that isn't exactly something a new player is going to understand.