Why POE2’s Direction Is Worrying for Veterans and Newcomers Alike

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Erebus1800#6364 wrote:

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Skiller2009#5689 wrote:

Impressive games collection exile, but are you a 'default'?

Look.. alot friends payed so much money.. and they love everything about poe2 the way it is. The game is deceloped for millions.. not for 10 players.

Today almost no one plays and speaks about diablo1.. although it was a success to make something new which attracted more gamers
. See d4.. 600 million revenue.. make it real to adress that market demands..

Alot already seasoned poe2 tried poe1.. and they hate it.. if they could they would ask for discontinuation of poe1.. just to further enhance 2.. maybe this should just be done as it is not needed and so that the comparison stops.

I for example love poe2 crafting.. we had in a group a super deep and successfull crafting session in the morning.. it was awesome and thanks for implementing it this way.. (i throw up if more currency is implemented.. its fast paced.. perfect for running). Poe1 crafting is garbage. so old so clunky.. not modern.. and so easy.. lol.. recombinator.. add two rares and get best of two back.. i would be done after day 1 not day 3..
This cant be demand and target group (40/ 50 years..). If you like to read books about a game play dwarve fortress.. it was not super bad.. but.. maybe 500k sold copies. Got that also lol?

Its about develping 600 mil revenue game .. no one would play poe1 2.0 . Oh ok.. maybe you are the fraction or d1 guy.. but .. the market are not the defaults... its the backers who love ggg.. face it.. there.was never a promise to create a second part nor a demand for a new.poe1 season (its complete..and old).. thats why it will not receive a new season in 2024.

Thanks ggg for that awesome game..you would even have my vote to close down poe1 to focus on 2. Please dont develop it for 10.players but for the millions target group.. i fear if we dont speak up here it.will fail.

Want to laugh? 2 seasoned poe1 players discussing they were searching for poe1 skills.. righteous fire and bone shatter..

Ggg already said..rf was wrongly implememted .. it was a fail.. not a w, and boneshatter exists as it is a combo now!! Not.even this they knew..

And i tell you.. 40% of passive tree can be reduced.. i would throw up if i see poe1 tree.. without design and spirit.. looks boring.

If you want easier game.. play poe1.

Its same with hc players...dont balance this tiny fraction.. so many ssf are.in 80s and so many of.my friends done with poe2 leveling.. very performance oriented but would never play hc due to.power.outage chance.. they are decent.. and not no lifers...not defaults. You want to balance around this group.. not the 400 lvl 40 hc players.. which complaint. Lol..

Remove hc.. offer only core and ssf.. balance around this via portals and give players a kill counter + achievement.. if they are deathless and all these meetings discussions and weird balance tweaks which drag performance ..vanishs.. give us fun and engaging challenge.. and not boredom after 3 days with lvl 99.. xx million happy.

This has to be satire right? Or massive brain damage "I for example love poe2 crafting.. we had in a group a super deep and successfull crafting session" to say the POE 2 has crafting is one thing but to call it "Deep" is on a whole nother level of deranged.

What is this? did this guy even play? DEEP CRAFTING.

We threw exalts on some items, it was INTENSE

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

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theslavagame#6814 wrote:

You are right. Well, so, we are waiting for the golden era of Poe 2 and after... Poe 3

COPIUM :D

There's nothing else we can do. I've already spent more time complaining on this forum than I should have, about 100 times more (although it's a hell of a fun activity, you know)

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Maldosam#3663 wrote:

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SkyPrince30#4110 wrote:

I want to love this game, but it feels like PoE 2 is an exclusive club, and I'm not invited

When I see the behaviour of many (not all) members of said club, I don't really want to be one.

Ive gotten used to the fanboi club in most ARPG games, but when even a comment of "wow this map is big" gets an immediate "what a &^%$ take, go back to Diablo4" it kills my spirit. I have never played diablo 4. I play competitive RTS games mostly, which are, and always will be, more tiring and difficult to play than any ARPG. I think I should be able to react in wonder about how long a single level took without people assuming i must be shit at gaming and need some slop Activision made to feel better.

I don't think it's fully really occurred to many people, quite how much work is going to have to go into reworking the endgame to fit this "slower methodical" vision, more worryingly I don't think GGG knows it either. In the campaign at least the new style arguably works, but the campaign has little consequence for dying and you can retry everything immediately, this makes it the most successfully souls like part of the game.

That style is completely incompatible with the current endgame, they can do the souls direction if they really want. But that means a complete rework of everything to match the"slow methodical, difficult but fair" souls experience. Map sizes will have to be significantly reduced. mob density and speed redone, souls games usually have slow and spread out enemies, this gives the player time to decide thier options thier, opening moves, set up buffs and combos. Doesn't work with swarming enemies, how does a hasted mana drain rare fit in with the difficult but fair philosophy?

Death consequences will have to drastically reduced, players need to repeat difficult content quickly in order to learn a bosses moves or it simply doesn't work, people will realize the risk is always too high for the reward, and only play content they can crush easily.

Every mechanic that blurs the "difficult but fair line" will need to be revised or removed. barely visible death effects and ground hazards, oppressive rare modifiers, Build breaking mechanics such as sanctum, all gone.

And of course to fit the slower pace and difficulty, the gameplay loop needs to be far far shorter. A short dungeon, a mini boss and a reward. If your gameplay requires constant focus and attention it has to be in short bursts. not stumbling around a map for 30 Minutes in paranoia, knowing that one bad combination of rare modifiers could undo all your progress.

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Kaukus1#7461 wrote:

Let me break down some key issues:

1. Slow Doesn’t Mean Better
A slower-paced game can be good, but it doesn’t automatically make it better. If you’re tired of POE1’s "zoom-zoom," I get it. But removing movement skills entirely, especially in massive maps that often require multiple trips through the same areas? That’s not challenging—it’s tedious. Even with rolls and movement speed buffs, traversing the world feels like a slog.

I do agree that some of the maps just feel way to big. Removing movement skills for them most part was to improve combat and unlock the ability to design boss encounters with more intent. I still think most maps are too big.

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2. Difficulty Isn’t About Tedium
I keep hearing that POE2 is “more difficult.” But is it? Difficulty isn’t about giving enemies inflated health pools and forcing players into a boring loop of poking, retreating, and poking again. That’s not engaging—it’s frustrating. True difficulty should come from well-designed mechanics and meaningful decision-making, not from artificially drawn-out combat.

In my opinion the combat is a LOT more engaging. And that was the goal. It is harder, because you can't just screenclear and oneshot everything. The combat is more methodical and thus demands more attention, care and skill from the average player. Or it is what Jonathan wants it to be. Some builds just don't stick to those (theoretical) norms.

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3. Flasks and the “Vision”
Yes, flasks now refill on kills, which is better than the original POE2 reveal. But the addition of refill wells still feels unnecessary and redundant. The whole system feels like a solution to a problem that didn’t exist in POE1. Instead of adding depth, it just slows down the pacing. It’s another example of the “vision” overriding what’s actually fun.

Flasks are fun. They run out. They are an acutally limiting factor and that is a good thing. Not just having them run permanently and having basically infinite regen is intentional. If you visit the well often, you should think about another combat approach imo.

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4. Crafting Is a Mess
No deterministic crafting is a joke. The devs say they want us to craft more, but how? Without reliable tools like crafting benches or alt rolls, crafting feels like throwing currency into the void and praying for a miracle. If the idea is to encourage players to build items from scratch, it’s not working. The lack of control isn’t engaging—it’s exhausting.

I do agree that crafing took a big hit and is very much unfinished. I think Omens need a rework and we should not just rely on pure luck even with omens to craft upgrades. I hope they fix that with additional leagues and crafting methods

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5. Drops and Vendors
If you like the current loot drops, more power to you. But even if you do, they’re still poorly designed. Vendors have been given more power, but drops feel so sparse that crafting currency barely exists. The balance isn’t there. You can’t expect players to engage deeply with crafting when you’re starving them of the resources to do so.

Some of the orbs should be more common so we can engage in the basic orb crafting earlier on, yes. It needs balancing and GGG will tackle that next year I am sure.

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6. The Skill Tree Is Disappointing
The new skill tree looks like POE1’s tree but feels hollow in comparison. The nodes are uninspired, and the restrictive layout makes it harder to create unique or unconventional builds. The inability to travel across the tree freely stifles creativity. And the absence of masteries? It’s a huge loss. Masteries gave builds flexibility and depth, allowing players to specialize and fine-tune their characters. Without them, the tree feels rigid and unexciting. Even basics like Life nodes, which helped define different defensive strategies, are missing, limiting creativity in ways that hurt the game.

I do think it feels a lot more interesting than the PoE1 tree. PoE1's tree feels very stat focussed without a lot of interesting notes. Life is basically mandatory to run on PoE1s tree (unless you run ES as a replacement) and isn't an interesting choice at all, but literally 15-20 mandatory points. Same with other kinks the PoE2 tree doesn't have. The Absence of Masteries is also really good, because it allows the notes itself to be the masteries you wanna go for. If you want the really spicy stuff you have to annoint or path to the notes. Especially in the weapon and damage wheels at the outside of the tree GGG really outdone themselves.

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7. The Gem System Isn’t Fun
The new gem system isn’t engaging. It’s clunky, and the fact that gems don’t stack just highlights how half-baked it feels. The uncut gem mechanic might seem like an interesting idea, but in practice, it’s just another layer of grind. Gems should feel like an integral part of progression, not a source of frustration.

They are an integral part of progression. Yes getting to 5 socktet gems is tedious/expensive and I feel like we should get greater and perfect jeweller's earlier, but overall it's a BIG improvement over PoE1s system.

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8. The Campaign Is Too Long
Some players praise the longer campaign, but for leagues, this is a disaster. Every league, we’ll have to slog through this overly long campaign multiple times. POE1’s campaign is already considered a chore by many veterans, and POE2’s is shaping up to be even worse. A longer campaign doesn’t mean better retention—it just means more burnout.

I enjoy the campaign very much and it is not a means to an end, but part of the progression and game. And from what I've experienced the first run was brutal, but everything after than (without gambing or boosted gear) was a lot smoother. I cut down my time through Acts 1-3 from over a day to 9 hours. And that is without following a build guide or anyhting.

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9. Ascendancies and Trials
Why can’t we change ascendancies anymore? Is this supposed to be a challenge? It’s just restrictive for no reason. And Trials… who thought combining Ultimatum and Sanctum mechanics was a good idea? Trials are tedious, clunky, and far from enjoyable. It feels like GGG took the least-loved mechanics and doubled down on them, which is baffling.

I do agree that not being able to change ascendancies feels very off, especially for EA. I get the thematic, but I also think it is wrong to lock that choice. Trials are challenging. The balance is a bit off at the moment and unlocking your endgame points is a really hard challence and possibly should be brought down a notch. I also think we should get a true choice Act 2 and be able to run Ultimatum in Act 2 so we can actually choose what we wanna run for out first set of points.

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I Want to Love POE2, But It’s Hard
As a veteran, I want to see POE2 succeed. I want it to be different, but it also needs to respect the core systems that have kept players invested in POE1 for years. Right now, it feels like GGG is prioritizing their “vision” over what actually works.


To the newer players defending these changes without understanding their long-term impact: you’re not helping. Ignoring valid criticism isn’t supporting the game; it’s enabling bad design. Constructive feedback is what helps games improve. POE2 has the potential to be great, but it needs to address these issues before it alienates the very players who’ve been its foundation for years.

I do think your point of view is heavily tainted by PoE1 and loving that game for what it is. A lot of the systems in PoE2 aren't different for being different, but to improve the game in various ways. Yes there are still a lot of edges and it's far from the polish we as players and GGG wants for their product, but the foundation is just an inprovement of PoE1 in practially every way. If you can't see it and don't feel seen by GGG maybe it's time to accept that PoE2 isn't PoE1 4.0 and will (hopefully) never be that

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ofRoyale#1856 wrote:

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just_dont#6539 wrote:

Whereas PoE2 is already much slower, aiming more somewhere closer to Diablo 1.

I don't think you ever played Diablo 1 if this is your genuine opinion.

Definitely, LOL, PoE 2 is not slow at ALL compared to diablo 1 and 2, I am what those games would consider "zooming" in poe2, its just I happen to be zooming in a map that equals the size of one of their entire ACTS.

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just_dont#6539 wrote:

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

Ok, you're a troll. Bye

Yeah, pointing that you're projecting sure makes me a troll.
You don't know anything about PoE2 leagues.
You don't know for how long they run.
You don't know how their content will fit the game.
You don't know if you will be required to beat all the campaign before seeing anything league-specific or not.

You don't know anything, but you're already projecting and whining.

Obvious Troll is obvious.

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Omegasybers#0029 wrote:

[PoE2's] foundation is just an inprovement of PoE1 in practially every way.

Really, i can't stand this anymore.
- How is triple punishment with extra tinsel an improvement? It's the opposite: players won't use their own builds but heavily rely on the metas to reduce the possibility of punishments!
- How is completely mindless casino crafting an improvement?
- How is not dropping currency encouraging players to 'craft'?
- How is 1-death-game-over encouraging players to get the 'souls' vibe, when being one-shotted by something they didn't have on screen, cause they can't craft items to prevent this?

I really want to understand people writing this. Graphics are the only improvement. The rest is an exact copy of PoE1 without crafting, without loot and without movement speed.

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I'm totally agreed.

Bosses are not hard, they're just backpedaling hit'n'run. There are not decision, because there are no time - you have to dodge attack all the time. So best way is to spam something and dodge.

Unless boss oneshots me, I had not problem with bosses.

Campaign length is disasterous. Act 1 is nice but next are meh.