Why POE2’s Direction Is Worrying for Veterans and Newcomers Alike
" Well, until they fix it you will, anyway! It's funny that your posts are all so directly attributable toward yourself :D You are the one having your favourite toy slowly leak away from you, you are the one posting endlessly on the forum despite claiming you're enjoying the game, you're the one throwing tantrums about people's behavior on the forums :D I'm gloating, sure. It's fun. It's a fun show to watch. Piece by piece, your world falls away from you. The tone of my posts is altered to match that of those I respond to - people who argue in good faith and have reasonable and reasoned points get replies in turn, while militants like you get laughed at. Last edited by Pathological#1188 on Dec 16, 2024, 10:24:46 PM
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" You make some sense, and at the same time you don't. I'm here to discuss, if you wanna troll I'm out. If I try to watch from both perspective, do we realize that saying : - PoE2 not for you, go back to PoE1 - PoE2 not for you, go back to D2 are the same pointless arguments in both directions ? You talk about Elder bullet phase, you can dodge without barely moving at all, only side stepping. That's a bad example (but we could argue there are other examples). Have you seen Zarokh hourglass phase ? THIS is 100% movement speed issue. Why are you all so fixated on the zoomers, aren't you just jealous ? (no troll, serious introspection question) I'm not a zoomer, so I just farm slow content like harbingers. And that's fine, cuz I have the CHOICE. Zooming isn't a fatality, you know that ? That's why it's fun, cuz there is lattitude, it is a player CHOICE about what you farm. At the moment PoE2 doesn't have that choice. You'll have to be slow. How is that close to an upgrade ? Movement skill missing is not about zooming for me, it's about fun. When OP was talking about poke and back, it's like it doesn't create any fun situation. You always do the same pattern, and if you go too deep, you're dead (map lost etc, wow so fun). With movement skill, I can actually try to challenge, dive in, sometimes getting caught, sometimes getting out of it. It creates engagement, epic moments, FUN. At the moment it feels like playing tennis, but all points are decided on serve. That's not fun on the long run. Talking about the zoomers, you realize that top players beat the game also in a week ? Same "speed" as PoE1. While many things wheren't solved before hand. Why aren't you mad about the zoomers now ? To keep it somewhat short, you also talk about becoming a god. Isn't it the goal of the game ? You kill, you improve your char, to kill harder, to improve, to kill harder. Why are you killing mobs ? And because we all have different time/skills, you need a large scale, so that everyone finds a challenge. Why the zoomer should get bored after 2 days because it requires you 2 weeks ? It's also ok if you don't kill last best boss, it's a goal for you to improve. I don't get it, where is this "mimimi" coming from ? Maybe people play this game with a "single player" mind ? "I want to be able to beat the game also ?" Is that jealousy ? (those are not rhetorical questions, I really don't get what drives ppl) Now, and specifically towards you. Your build in settlers is using a headhunter (+ flicker strike xD). That's beyond me. Arguably the most zoomy item ever. How can you be against zooming, but using it yourself. Are you really complaining about zooming because you can't see there are other gameplays possible ? EDIT : OMG, now that I went through all your characters in PoE1, you are only playing Flicker strike. And you really have the audacity to come here and talk about zooming ? Playing only Flicker ? Are you just a troll ? :D Last edited by rob_korn#1745 on Dec 17, 2024, 3:25:53 AM
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Deterministic crafting is not necessary. The current system works fine as-is...
IF players have more than enough currency to craft with. Or, if modifier weights are balanced for solo play rather than being so insanely weighted that it would take hundreds of thousands of ex to get just two or three of the modifiers you want on one item. Trade becomes a non-issue if players can reasonably progress their gear without it. Deterministic crafting is unnecessary if players have enough currency and a good enough chance to create their own gear with orbs. You can't have random crafting, super low weights balanced for trade, and scarce currency drops all at the same time. Not unless you really, really want trade to be the primary way for players to upgrade their gear. And guess what? If trade is the primary way to upgrade gear, players will absolutely, 100% abuse it to get the best gear they possibly can and make your progression system look like a joke, because that's exactly what it is. This has been a problem for over a decade and every single "fix" has been nothing more than a band-aid. The bench? A band-aid. Fossils? A band-aid. Essences? Band-aid. The root cause is currency scarcity and low mod weights. Nobody wants to trade for their upgrades. Everyone would rather be able to find or craft those upgrades on their own. But the game says otherwise. |
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" The rootest cause of them all is the fact that "crafting" is just gambling. Even if you increase currency availability, that will still lead into some people getting their perfect rares and some don't. Because it's gambling, not everyone will get lucky. For it to become notably better, crafting should step away from being gambling, and instead should become a limited, but deterministic way to improve/make gear. |
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" Well you profile is private so how would we know you achived all that? |
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Just registering my strong disagreement with the OP, hope the Devs keep going on their vision.
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I've also played poe1 since before they fully released it and they only had 2 acts and npc names were "place maker quest guy", have played every league(except maybe 1 or 2) and pretty much had the same reaction as all of your points in the original post. the game is slow as fuck, the skill tree is meh (no life nodes??), the gem system is fucked, 50 different support gems if i have 10 skills? no thankyou. i want to specialize my characters, thats what made poe poe. Having the tools to make such over powered builds if you had the knowledge was one of the main reasons i kept playing, each league i'd make about 5 or 6 characters with builds i'd never played before, the current gem system just feels unengaging and the support gem limit just feels like i'm being pushed toward a meta. This game feels closer to diablo 4 than poe1 in its current state(not a compliment). POE1 was a masterpiece, i dont understand why they've stripped so much of what made it great a great game in the first place. I know its still early access but im getting the same vibe i had when i waited for D3 to be realesed after playing d2 for my whole life and being severely let down. Hopefully they address a lot of these issues before the full release. The combat system and story line is great but it seems they got lost in the whole "make it accessible to everyone" that they pretty much lost the essence of PoE. Atleast they didn't make all of the items take up the same amount of inventory space like d3 did.
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" Well poe1 peaked at 229k in july so, 50 % of poe2's which is 17th lowest was 196k highest 437k and 50 % of 437k is 218k |
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I agree completely.
I've brought this up before, but I really want to particularly highlight just how absolutely incompatible, I think, many of the design choices are with the seasonal model. There have been many people praising the slow pace and the difficulty. I am absolutely not seeing how people will replay this every single league on every single character. I think they won't. All the people praising how slow and difficult it is, like 2 of them will come back. I'm 100% sure of that. The PoE 1 campaign offers many opportunities to speed up with every playthrough. That is what keeps it fresh - the pacing is just right. The base movement speed is good in relation to the size of the zones, you level up at a frequency that makes you want to keep going. The PoE 2 pacing somehow feels just absolutely dreadful. On top of that, and I don't know how to put it nicely, I just absolutely hate the dodge roll and the fact that the boss fights are designed around it. |
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"thank you i appreciate a good discussion its rare nowadays tbh. " i must admit i m not too sure what this point is about, it definitely is pointless to argue about this because, Path2, PoE1, D2 are all different games. The way i see it Path2 is more akin an all terrain jeep, its rough but you get to go to many different places that others cant experience. PoE1 is more akin a modern car, maybe an MPV. it can go fast and it can carry a lot of stuff. D2 is probably "your dads old car". when your family was struggling you had to borrow it from him and it got you places. theres a lot of sentimental value and some people just like driving old cars for their antique value/simplicity. whether or not i m accurate with those analogies, what i m saying is, they're all not the same. if you like a certain experience, you use the car that gives you the best experience to cater to yourself. thus if you prefer poe1 you should play poe1. simple as that. trying to make poe2 into poe1 is not what the devs wanted. and if that eventually happens i might quit both altogether. " you seem pretty skilled to be able to do that. i definitely might be wrong about that example. perhaps maybe eradicator one was better? zarokh one is BULLSHIT. you're 100% right on that. it is 100% a ms issue and GGG needs to fix that shit ASAP. " the fact you brought up zarokh is a good so i can just use him as an example. if players were given ways to get 50-100% movespeed, how will GGG balance zarokh? where is the sweet spot? currently GGG needs to just tweak it so that players have 5-10 extra seconds and the entire bullshit mechanic will suddenly be fine. if we have the ability to run around faster, theres no way for ggg to easily fix this mechanic. anyone with 50% movespeed would trivialize the entire mechanic. if GGG rebalanced it so you at least 40% ms to make the 50%ms users sweat a little, then you've effectively FORCED ALL players to get 50% ms as baseline. this is what happened with poe1. a lot of player power caused GGG to design harder and harder mechanics which in turn increase the minimum of what a player needs to have in order to be viable. in a very long winded way, this is the upgrade. the fact that you can play with a measely 20-30% ms boots is the upgrade. moving forward all of the bosses in path2 will be balanced around 20-30% ms. getting more would be difficult but possible. it can indeed help but players who cant get that much wont feel so punished by encounters that require large amount of ms. as for am i jealous? you checked my character out. should i be jealous of myself? lol. to me i m sick of zooming around. to be honest i hate the fact that if you want to really fully enjoy poe1 you need to zoom. the reality is poe1 is a flawed game but it is the BEST diabloclone for a solid decade. if you're talking about playing the game slow is an option. i ll be real with you. the game is built for zoomers. all the weaker content that slower builds can do are a mere afterthought to GGG. i honestly feel that whenever players say they have a choice of what content to run, it seems more of copium rather than anything else. in poe1 theres 2 ways to play the game. either blast everything or outlast everything by being a super tank. of course you have those 2 options but GGG is clearly pushing you to playing zoom. a lot of mechanics in the game are zoom. breach, endless conflict, delirium etc. if you're slow you barely get anything. if you do maven invites, you need to blast. if you're too weak, the enemy may end up being healed more than you can damage them, and the longer you fight the more bosses appear and the harder you have to tank. similarly in shaper encounters, the longer you fight, the more perma degen pools appear. the reason why i hate zoom is not entirely due to hating zoomers. its because Poe1 evolved in such a way that FORCED zooming. zooming is the best way to play. the choice you currently have to be honest is last night's leftovers. they simply exist. path2 being slow and anti zoomer means that even if you are weak, you get to experience higher end tier content. wouldnt you like that? EVERYONE gets to experience end game content and you just need to be smart about avoiding telegraphed hits. i dont think you're a weak player either. maybe you're downplaying yourself. but either way, if you are indeed weak. in path2 even if you're weak, you're not too far behind better players. that is why i hate zoom content. " i understand this fun as i use dash in poe1 heavily. tell me how would GGG rebalance zarokh if dash was in the game? they would almost certainly be forced to make it more harder no? " the main difference is most players are enjoying this game, getting beaten by "bullshit mechanics", instead of ragequitting they bitch and complain. and all that is without the use of a buildguide. many went in blind. to be honest all the people using minion builds are robbing themselves of the experience of making something for themselves for once. and i AM mad for the overperforming skills. ok maybe not mad. but annoyed that GGG is yet to nerf them. there still are a few right now. but the fact GGG slapped heavy nerfs so fast recently is quite a good sign that they are likely gonna do something about it. also one main key factor why i m not too mad is that I M ENJOYING THE GAME! FUCKYEAH! i m playing as a jank ass melee 2handed poisoner pathfinder. currently level 80. i m struggling but i m having tons of fun. all that because of one major difference between Path2 and poe1. Path2 is specifically made to be antizoom. the latter is the complete opposite. i can do bosses without 40-50% movespeed. i dont need to burst down bosses in 3 seconds. i play smart and even if i m weak i can do it. so actually am i mad for the zoomers? naaaaaaah thinking about it naaaah. i m mad at ggg for not nerfing them sooner. lol " the gap between "good" and "decent" in poe1 vs path2 are very different. as i mentioned about movespeed as an example. there are less "requirements" that you need to check off to make a viable build in Path2 compared to poe1 simply because the game is not balanced in poe1. poe1 is GGG pandering to players with power fantasy. they did not dare nerf player power so the only thing they could do was make stupid crazy difficult encounters that has huge ass slams or required you to run around at top speeds or just die. the philosophy of path2 is different from poe1. look at the gearing. players are expected to want 2 awesome mods, then the rest are just filler/bonuses. in poe1 you're expected to have very good rolls on your gear and a lot of that on top. if you compare player power from poe1 and path2. poe1 is a sharp curve upward, while path2 is more linear. gaining more power is good but not necessary in path2 but in poe1, the bare minimum needed is quite high. " are you refering to the mimimi "me me me me me me me only me" song? abit condescending if so but i ll let it slide. if you elaborate i can give you a better response. i dont quite get it. " look back about how i mentioned poe1 was built to cater zoomers. all it did was create a huge divide between weaker players and better players. thousands of dps vs millions is an obscene divide. balance in a game becomes "impossible" if no limits are set. GGG realized this and have limited players in many ways in path2 to prevent that from happening. i may be biased but i see this as an overall positive [Removed by Support]
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