0.1.0d Hotfix 1

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SilverWF#6383 wrote:

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Willizord#0970 wrote:

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SilverWF#6383 wrote:

"middle-aged people have limited time" should play stable RELEASES and never touch EARLY ACCESS games - it saves their money, time and nerves by a lot.

Don't shrug off legitimate criticisms by saying "Early Access", the entire POINT of Early Access is to address problems and improve the game before release. GGG massively overcorrected with his nerf and created a new problem that is now being pointed out by the people in this thread.

"massively overcorrected" is , for example, when Crossbow skills would converted to melee skills.

Slight fix for 1 secondary gem is not.

Stop protecting OBVIOUSLY broken stuff.

Where is the evidence that it was OBVIOUSLY broken? That people enjoyed it? Why is that a problem that needs to be fixed?

Because the evidence that it's OBVIOUSLY broken now can be seen by hopping into any map and trying to trigger a skill against anything that isn't a boss. If the skill you're trying to trigger is in any way important for your build, then you're not going anywhere.

Using Cast on Ignite as an example, you need to ignite white enemies 40 times to cast a single Solar Orb, which is one of the fastest base cast times skills you can select for this. 50 ignites for a Firewall cast, 60 for a Fireball, 70 for a Firestorm. Add a couple of those together if you wanted to trigger more than one spell, because the energy cost is combined. If you have 50% increased energy gained on the gem, you reduce the number of ignites required by 25% to 33%, depending on the skill: Solar orb goes to 30(actually 27 but I'm rounding) ignites on the low end, Fireball goes to 40 on the high end. This essentially turns a basic skill into a Vaal skill from POE1 that you can only use after killing several packs.

In POE1 they balanced trigger skills by making them do less damage and giving a small cooldown to each spell. THAT'S what I would call a "slight fix for 1 secondary gem".

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死神Babli#4664 wrote:

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dudebrahmin#3357 wrote:

What you described isn't a CoS build. You just described a Spark build that has something it sometimes triggers that is not even remotely crucial to the build.

Learn the difference.

it is CoS ... jsut that it is now better to reset the shocks to get the procs faster, and on the way to finding that out, somehow we completely changed the playstyle and realised that if you focus on clearspeed with your spells you actualy can clear jsut as fast as before while also beeing faster on bosses than before.

Builds change. yes now you cant just spam one skill and everything dies instandly.


"Just because something works doesn't mean it's effective. Cast on Freeze still works, but it's about 10% effective, or less. Two things can be true at the same time."
that is true, and since most of my time testing stuff and playing around is on CoS i cant speak for CoF .. altho i assume with "Shaper of Winter" there could be possibilities to make it work in a similar way.

but is it rly 10% .. clearing any map on CoS i still get procs every 3-8 sec as long as there are enemys to shock .. but now we trigger on bosses every 5 or so secounds.
but .. this is the whrong thread to discuss this.

I mean, I was(am) specced into Freeze buildup on the tree, have Glaciation on my main skill Freezing Shards (I'm playing a Blood Mage. That's a different issue but the first Ascendancy makes you weaker than before Ascension. Health costs are just wild), and it went from proccing on every other instance of freeze, to one in 15-18 instances of freezing. When I say instance of freezing, what I mean is if you cast Freezing Shards, it doesn't matter if you hit and freeze 1 target, or 5 targets, it's still 82% energy gain. After the patch, I was getting about 8% per instance of freezing.

Now we can sit here and say I'm playing a sh*t build and you'd probably be right. I didn't follow a guide or anything, just trying things out on my own. There's not really many options to play if you pick a Witch and don't want to play minions. Cold felt fun and Eye of Winter reminded me of my old D2 Blizzard-Sorc. But Freezing Shards didn't do amazing damage, but it was good at building freeze. Frostbolt is the same way, very low damage, great at Freeze. Ice Wall is just clunky. Eye of Winter is fun and looks cool... but it's low damage, and great at proccing crit (it lowers crit resistance). Cold Snap is really the only giga ability we have, which is actually good damage but has a low area of effect. Comet is great, BUT, leaves you incredibly vulnerable IF you aren't using it on Cast on Freeze. Which is what most people did. There just really wasn't/isn't a whole lot of diversity of build yet. Half the classes aren't in and the ones that are in are missing 1 out of 3 Ascendancies. A lot of weapons and all of their skills are missing. Everyone's already pretty limited.

The amount of people actually abusing Cast On X mechanics to an absurd degree were actually really small. And don't get me wrong, it DID NEED NERFING. But it just feels heavy. It got MUCH slower for me. And I LIKE the game. It looks amazing, the music is awesome, the combat IS FUN. The challenge is nice, but it's doable. Even if it takes me 6 deaths to beat Jamanra. I want this game to be great because I love PoE 1. And I know this is 2, not 1, and things are going to be different. That's fine. But for a lot of us, it was still 30 minutes or so to clear a map (large maps and backtracking doesn't help, but that's another thing). That 30 minutes turned into an hour.. Bossing isn't AS bad, because of their new "monster power" metric thing, but man.. The rest is a slog.

And honestly, sincerely, I'm not upset that they did the nerf. What's upsetting is I had a large chunk of my meager strength stripped from me and lack the means to fix it. And I sit here and go, "Is it quicker to spend hours grinding lower level zones for gold at 5,500 a passive point, or is it quicker to go through that whole campaign again..." At the moment, I don't really want to do either... I'm not gonna quit and uninstall, but man, after that nerf I need a break.

Honestly if respec costs were a fraction of what they are now, because skills are as unbalanced as they are, this wouldn't be such a contentious issue. Once skill balance is stable, and people aren't expecting things to change as much or as often, respec costs can go back to what they are now. Because I think the current respec costs are fine FOR a full release. They could even potentially be higher as people won't be needing to respec as often.

But thank you for having actual civil dialogue about this, human to human. I want this game to be the greatest ARPG of the decade. Genuinely.

Dealing with a 4 floor sanctum just to achieve ascension is so AWFUL, we keep getting pushed that mechanic through our guts.

Gas grenade damage was nerfed but mana cost didnt decrease acordingly, this should be fixed, merc arent casters, they shouldnt need that much mana just for one skill, fix that.

One try per map is not enough, this is not undecember.

Dealing with a 4 floor sanctum just to achieve ascension is so AWFUL, we keep getting pushed that mechanic through our guts.

Gas grenade damage was nerfed but mana cost didnt decrease acordingly, this should be fixed, merc arent casters, they shouldnt need that much mana just for one skill, fix that.

One try per map is not enough, this is not undecember.

Thanks for destroying the fun builds, and also forcing people to create a new char just because you all outright REFUSE to give a free respec option.

Guess you think of us all like lifeless nerds that will nolife this for 18+ hours a day??

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thep10xer#6551 wrote:

A CoS build by normal PoE standards would be a build that main damage source is whats being triggered and not simply being used as occasional supplemental damage.

So no, A build that works completely fine without CoS is not a CoS build.

Just like a build using herald of thunder for additional damage but works fine without it isn't a herald build.

We have diferent oppinions there, as far as i know a build that has something specificaly to kill harder rares or bossis is exactly that.
many bossing build have had diferent skills for clear. but what do i know i only have 6-7k hours in poe and about double taht in PoB, so im basicaly still a newbie.
but that does not even apply here ... the normal and magic monsters jsut dont survive long enought for the trigger to happen if you give your trigger skill some damage. Or would you say a CoC Cyclone is not CoC if cyclone does enougfht damage to clear.


and thanks Pancaketastic#1713

that is some nice insight into the build you are playing, so the impications of the nerf for CoF.
i think your one one other are the only posts that actualy describe the problem.

on a side note, with the new weapon swaping and castign abilitys with a specific weapon, id assume you could casicaly run a 2nd build for clearing ( using the weapon skill points) and focus your CoF for bossing.

Any and all fun detected is forbidden and will be punished.

well another lie by the team
you already nerfed it before which means u did not miss anything
just the one doing the nerfs have no clue what he is doing
and keep destroying everything well make every one leave
stop that stupid process we already in early access not the main so u can adjust but learn what u are doing instead of totally destroy things