[0.3] Chronomancer Megathread. WIP.

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monik390#5560 wrote:

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lufesg#0377 wrote:

What about minions with chronomancer?

I don't mind, but why? There are 0 interactions between Chrono and minions. Witch does better here.
What Ascendancy passive nodes do you want to use with minions and for what reason? Time Freeze alone?

I would think about smth minion only if it could be so strong that it would be too hard to ignore. But even in 0.1, when minions were the strongest, the best minion build still lacked in comparison to the power creep we had back then. 0.2 hit hard minions too, and it's not like many things changed for them in 0.3.

Although Chronomancer doesn't have an identity at all, it is still a Sorceress, and I still think it's better to stick with casting, at least until more CD stuff like traps or mines are getting released.

At least, for now.

Also, there is no way to Snap frost mages right now, unless they can be destroyed by the chain reaction of the Snap from the enemy, like Frost Wall.

I think Chronomancer identity is actually kind of makes sense with minions: There were lots chrono support-bots, using the Merit of Service shield for example.

You'd also go for alpha's howl for the presence radius increase, which fits having more minions with the +spirit.

Apex of the moment is actually a weird DPS increase on minions, since they still have kind of clunky AI, having slowed down enemies has them hit more consistently, also the survivability it gives lets you focus on their damage.

I'm guessing the new ascendency curse will also work with minions, so together with time freeze I'd say it would fit pretty well.

No real direction yet though, just trying to hopium my way to a chrono league start :'(

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VenaliterFA#4664 wrote:

Cold Snap: Has been reworked, and renamed to Snap.

We need to see how "Snap" works. does it remove the ailment? Logically, it has too, or we just spam "Snap" endlessly with no CD.

This. There are a lot of questions. I'm not sure if Snap would work on Frostbolt btw.

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VenaliterFA#4664 wrote:

On Living Bomb

Also, Ignited enemies exploding has interesting applications with the support Gem "Fiery Death", ignited enemies, which we in theory will be doing a lot of with Living Bomb, explode on Death. "Wildfire" will spread Ignites from living bomb, and when they die they have a 60% chance of exploding, which may also spread more ignites, because it's fire being dealt by the explosion, n'est pas? Provided the fire damage from the explosion can instantly ignite.

This is the idea I didn't think of myself, but I like it a lot.
If it works, Fire builds would have a new life. At last.

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Casia#1093 wrote:

/rant

I would like to argue about smth here, but the idea of merging Time Freeze and a new curse was so great, so I got lost for a few minutes dreaming about how good it would be. Literally a unique ultimate skill. I wouldn't mind the current CD for that, honestly.

Anyway, I have to agree on most things, besides those I wasn't related to (like the use of Unleash, I tried it as the 1st Ascendancy point, but Now and Again was still better in my case bc of Bomb + Wall + Crest of Ardura).

I've used Time Freeze as a defensive save and managed to catch Omniphobia's Leap Slam at Simulacrum once, but I can barely recall anything else notable, besides a couple of breaches. It truly is just a bossing skill on regular use. And no, it is still way better than regular Freeze on Pinnacles.

I really wanted you to touch Pinnacle content back then in 0.1, but unfortunately, SSF limits are harsh.

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Casia#1093 wrote:

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KeX#0405 wrote:

Spoiler

May I ask? I plan to make chronomancer in 0.3, with Blasphemy with Temporal chains. I tried to test it with passive nodes and 'Curse magnitude' or 'Aura magnitude' words in nodes had affected the slow. But skills with words 'Debuffs you inflict have x% increased Slow Magnitude' are not affecting the slow from Blasphemy with Temporal chains. Why? And why then the support gem 'Encumbrance' which is 'Debuffs inflicted with supported skill have increased 15% slow magnitude' works with Blasphemy? And moreover, in the ascendancy there are nodes 'Apex of the Moment' and previous to it 'Slow Effect' wich says 'Debuffs you inflict have 6% increased Slow Magnitude'. Strange to not to make those nodes work with Blasphemy TempChains, but working with 'Apex of the Moment' (is it working? I don't have the char to test it, strange to see the small passive not related to next big one in ascendacy).
So, what is a debuff/curse/aura then? Can't Blasphemy be all three at the same time?

Spoiler

its been a while. but I think what you are asking about is Temp chains debuff display, and slow magnitude.
slow magnitude is not actually displayed.

so, if you see a 28% temporal chains, with 20% increased slow mag, it will display as the 28% curse effect. but should actually slow at 33.6. iirc.

since slow is not actually displayed, everyone questioned if apex of the moment was even doing anything for the longest time.

There was a display bug when we had to turn off/on Blasphemy or change locations to display things properly.

As for the Apex of Slow (lmao), gosh, I got tired of proving it works by spamming my test video everywhere back then.

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lufesg#0377 wrote:

I think Chronomancer identity is actually kind of makes sense with minions.

I won't really argue on this bc even if I haven't seen the successful Chrono minion build, it doesn't mean there is no one. (Besides CoMD-Comet, but I can't say it was a pure summoner, lmao).

But I can recall some attempts that didn't go that far and didn't last for a long time.

And yeah, league starting with chrono minions isn't a great idea at all. You'll miss a lot of the starting minion damage passive that witch has. Act 1 w/o those sounds like self-harm.

To league start as a caster is just simpler bc you have more weapons to stick with, just pick the best skills of the right element. There is no real reason to run pure Cold on a fresh start if there is a wand drop with a +3 to lightning or fire. (Well, i have to say, lvling as a pure lightning Stormweaver isn't the experience I ever want to repeat. Compared to Cold, it was a torture).

With the new GGGs vision of Sorceress, it would be even easier bc we have to use skills of a different element now, and pure Cold leveling with Bomb+Wall was nerfed to the ground.

You won't have this kind of luxury on a minion build. Also, it will hurt a lot simply bc you ain't a witch.

well since chrono doesnt seem to have anything busted and unique
i may try to make some sh*tty builds to make sure im playing chrono
i told ai my birthday and it said sth like“poisoned rain”is the best choice fo me
so i would try fire turn to chaos，put ENVENOM on it.
with supports we can get Poison、burning and freeze on all hits，but i still cant see why picking chrono to play this sh*t
unique skills of chorno may be desighed deal with some worst downsides of some busted things，but there is no such busted thing for now

Hey guys - I'm a big Chrono enjoyer and I'm trying to figure out a nice build too. So here are my thoughts about her.

The big appeal of Chrono and it's "identity" for me is the "slow enemies"
Thus Temporal Chains cast as an Aura is integral for my playstyle as Chrono - and I love it!

Temporal Chains is great at defense with a big AOE and high slow magnitude and curse effect.

BUT Temporal Chains also has an offensive part in that in makes debuffs on enemies last longer. So shouldn't we be the best class at untilising debuffs and DOTs to kill enemies?

I tried out a lot of stuff like ignite, poison and chaos dots. and the only thing that really kind of worked was ED-Contagion.. But I'm not really happy with that... Chaos skills work better for Witch - we are a Sorc - we're supposed to use elemental or mayby physical skills?

At least that's where I'm at right now. If you have similar thoughts and ideas let me know - I'm happy to theorycraft Chrono this league some more and hope we can figure out some cool interactions.

Ok,I will ask in a blunt manner.
Is chrono capable of making timestop for all white monsters from aura in 0.3?
(Saw Kronos titan build in 0.1 and haven't seen something close to this in 0.2, due to lack of support jewels with aura magnitude modifiers.)

It is fair to say I glossed over the two big pros for "Time freeze".

1. no buildup. cold freeze build up may have been fast, and almost trivial. but it still existed. Time freeze could be done ON call, instantly. also, wall on cast nerf, means cold frozen won't build up nearly as quick.

2. cold freeze only even applies to a cold sorc..


Still, the final verdict stands. its a 4 point ascendancy. no damage force multiplier. this is a game with dps checks. while tools to set up combos can be valuable. they have to have real payoffs.
time freeze is only valuable if it lets you do a significant % of damage. like 50%. time freezing, and dealing 2-5% of a bosses hp means time freeze had no point. a gear check in itself.


time snap of course, absolutely increases dps of cd based skills.

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DonbeShy#2335 wrote:

why picking chrono to play this sh*t

This:

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Wolfbrother86#0515 wrote:

Thus Temporal Chains cast as an Aura is integral for my playstyle as Chrono - and I love it!

The only reason I didn't move to anything else. I'm just too spoiled by AoE slow and can't play w/o it anymore.

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Wolfbrother86#0515 wrote:

the only thing that really kind of worked was ED-Contagion

Ah, I remember Ichigo's build is still here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3592550

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Wolfbrother86#0515 wrote:

physical skills?

After a second thought, I think Blood Mage is suited for this a bit more. Witch has more physical spell passives.

But, I had my eyes on a new reap skill, honestly.

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KeX#0405 wrote:

Ok,I will ask in a blunt manner.
Is chrono capable of making timestop for all white monsters from aura in 0.3?
(Saw Kronos titan build in 0.1 and haven't seen something close to this in 0.2, due to lack of support jewels with aura magnitude modifiers.)

It is possible if getting 100% temporal chains is possible.

Getting lower than that (even if it's just -1% difference) will never permafreeze normals, but they still will be extremely slowed. I can be wrong with this statement tho, I remember Casia did some math a few months ago.

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Off topic, but we hit 0.5m views here. Congrats.
And I was close to deleting the thread in 0.2.

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Wolfbrother86#0515 wrote:

Hey guys - I'm a big Chrono enjoyer and I'm trying to figure out a nice build too. So here are my thoughts about her.

The big appeal of Chrono and it's "identity" for me is the "slow enemies"
Thus Temporal Chains cast as an Aura is integral for my playstyle as Chrono - and I love it!

Temporal Chains is great at defense with a big AOE and high slow magnitude and curse effect.

BUT Temporal Chains also has an offensive part in that in makes debuffs on enemies last longer. So shouldn't we be the best class at untilising debuffs and DOTs to kill enemies?

I tried out a lot of stuff like ignite, poison and chaos dots. and the only thing that really kind of worked was ED-Contagion.. But I'm not really happy with that... Chaos skills work better for Witch - we are a Sorc - we're supposed to use elemental or mayby physical skills?

At least that's where I'm at right now. If you have similar thoughts and ideas let me know - I'm happy to theorycraft Chrono this league some more and hope we can figure out some cool interactions.

This was 100% something I considered, and tried at one point. terrible results. I don't remember if it was 1.0 or 2.0.

the idea of slow/freezing enemies and just letting dots do their thing makes sense.
its even one of my early complaints on how Chrono was implemented. Damage over TIME. why did we have quicksand hourglass giving faster cast, which had no synergy with CD's. instead of something that speeds up Dots.
time freeze should give dots infinite duration while active, etc..

ultimately, not a lot of synergy. perhaps chaos spells have been buffed to be more viable now though.


lets look at Slow aura chronomancer for 3.0. taking what we know. and assuming things not mentioned, have not been changed.

jewels:
sapphire.
3-7% increased aura mag. lets average out to 5% this was removed I guess.
2-4% increased curse mag. 3% average.


Temp chains:
was 22-25% slow. (other effects expire 25% slower.)
10% inc curse mag, with 10% quality.

new- Temporal Chains: Now has a minimum Gem level of 7 (previously 13). Now has Curse Slows targets by 46-59% at Gem levels 7-20 (previously 24-28%).


Blasphemy:
41-50% less magnitude.

Encumbrance support.
debuffs with supported skills have 15% increased slow mag.


Chrono:
apex.
enemies have 20% slow. (multiplies into temp chains)
debuffs have 6% increased slow mag.

Passive tree.
4 jewels.
8% curse mag, zone of control
36% curse mag. master of hexes.
debuffs have 10% increased slow mag. hindered cap
debuffs have 10% increased slow mag. chronomancy.
(debuffs have 10% increased slow mag. time manipulation. annoint. an option, not going to count this)

this would be be easy to get without gutting your build to go full aurabot.

Glove corrupt.
debuffs you inflict 20-30% slow mag. 25% average

glove rune.
(serpant talisman 5% increased curse mag. I am not going to count this one, I feel like the slot is too valuable.)

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so lets total that up.
4 jewels: 12% curse effect.
8% curse effect zone
36% curse effect master of hexes.
12+36+8=56% curse mag.
10+10+25+6=51% increased slow mag, +15 encumbrance in blasph=66%


56% curse mag= 56% increased mag of curses in blasphemy.
59% temp chainx1.56=89% temp chains base.

x.59 lvl 20 blasphemy=62% curse effect.
x1.66 slow mag= 103% slow.

apex of the moment.
20% base slowx62% temp chains base slow= 74% base slow. I think. I need to rethink the math here.
"slows are multiplicative with each other"
so, 100% action speed x 1(1-.62)= 38% action speed x 1(1-.20)=30.4% action speed?
I think that is right.

ok, lets redo that with slow mag added in.
20% apex x 1.51= 30.2% slow
62% blasphemy temp chains x 1.66=103%

100% action speed, x 1(1-.30)x 1(1-1.03)= -2% action speed.
dang no... that formula doesnt work. add in 50% chill at this point breaks it, being in the negatives.

I just don't know what the correct math for slows multiplying into each other is.. if slow mag is done separately or not.

haven't gotten too this yet either.
Slow has 15% less effect on magic, 30% less on rare, and 50% less effect on Unique.
Curses have 15% less effect on Magic monsters, 30% less effect on Rare monsters, and 50% less effect on Unique monsters.


Edit:
ok, rechecking things in game.
8% curse mag passive
level 18 blasph. 41% less curse mag.
level 19 temp chain 20% quality: 28% slow. +10% curse mag. lists 19% slow while in blasph.
lists 33% slow self cast. 28%x1.18=33 checks out.
33x.59= 19.49% checks out.
adding encumbrance. 33x1.15=37.9 self cast. in game is showing 37%. it usually rounds up right? something is not right here.
37.9x.59 blasph=22% checks out.

(15% temp, 10% hinder versus rares)


ok. add apex slow mag. 6%

self cast: 39.9, shows 39%. ok doesnt round up. I thought it did.
23% blasphemy. checks out.


hinder via temp chains with encumbrance. 15% with blasphmy. 17% self cast.. huh..
encumbrance support in blasphemy is not effecting Hinder via blasphemy


if the slow multiplies into each other gives us a formula of, modified time= base time/1+value, then we would be seeing different results as well. for that formula, a "100% slow", would result in 50% reduced action speed. it would be noticeable.

Other than spell mechanics, we need real defensive changes as well. We need a 2nd layer of mitigation, because pure ES can't deal with the massive hits we take without evasion or armor.

We also need to be able to scale our mana pool. I'm really hoping for EB fixes, more +maximum mana, or int giving +4 mana a point or something.

I proposed a mitigation tool that took 5-10% of our mana recovery and turned it into damage reduction. Kinda like Waveshaper, though I didn't think of that when I originally came up with the idea.

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monik390#5560 wrote:

It is possible if getting 100% temporal chains is possible.

well，i nearly did it in 0.2 though，using 100%adorned and stacked all the curse magnitudes i could get，the hand-cast temp chain could make 125%+slow 。in Blas maybe70+
the new curse buffs will massively increase the effect against white monsters，but almost the same against bosses.btw,my single time freeze could last nearly 300s under temp chain.so im kinda tired of slowing monsters,I ve freezed monsters for months.
since 0.3 doesnt really do any buff on my infinite time freeze build,doesnt make it any easier,so i doubt if I need to build it again.