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What is icicle when referenced, I am not seeing that skill anywhere?
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Posted byChris2552#4293on Dec 11, 2024, 3:55:45 PM
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made some adjustments to the planned tree.
Removed EB for now.
Added Climate change for more freeze buildup.
added breaking point for more buildup, duration, and chill effect.
removed Forthcoming.
added Harsh winter. Removed heavy frost.
EB was always the last thing to get, and potentially, not at all. outright removed it for now.
I think I was already planning on harsh winter. but doing the math, I think Heavy frost is actively detrimental for sure.
in my build my frost wall has 75% cold pen, and 33% exposure on frost bomb iirc. hypothermia is even more cold resist reduction. so,frost wall, is almost certainly into the negatives. thus, zero resists on hits versus frozen targets, is a detriment.
Skill effect duration is a mixed bag. Frost bomb explodes faster with reduced. does more damage with increased. curses last longer with increased.
so, forthcoming gave us 10% cdr nice. and reduced skill effect.. harsh winter gives us increased.. so, fewer bombs, which last longer and hit harder for longer exposure uptime and longer curse up time.
Freeze duration in poe 1 IS NOT effected by skill effect duration.
Current Skills:
Time snap: - Ingenuity +5 dex
Frost Bomb: - Fast Forward +5 str- Second Wind +5 dex- Strip Away +5 int
Frost Wall: - Controlled destruction +5 int- Deep freeze +5 int - Cold pen +5 int
Frostbolt: - Glaciation +5 int- Acceleration +5 dex- Arcane tempo +5 int
Hypothermia: - Expanse +5 int- persistance +5 str
Cast on Freeze: - Frostwall - Conc effect +5 int- spell echo +5 int
Ice nova: Unleash +5 int- Inevitable crit +5 int - mag effect +5 int
Cold Snap: - Leverage +5 dex - hourglass +5 int- arcanesurge +5 int
Self cast Frostwall for damage and permafrost on bosses.
frost bomb for exposure, and wall popping.
ice bolt for frost buildup, and cast on freeze for trash. hence the faster proj.
(scattershot would be 5l)
nova and cold snap are there.. to exist. occasional targeted freeze pop. if everything else is on cd.
Can this be done with comet on freeze? Right now ive been using your build but basically using walls to control the field and then using frost bombs to pop and freeze comet
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Posted byspikeisadog14#5599on Dec 11, 2024, 4:02:32 PM
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What is icicle when referenced, I am not seeing that skill anywhere?
icicle is a teir2 support gem. click on "show all gems".
it gives "ice crystals" 50% less life.
https://poe2db.tw/us/Icicle
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Posted byCasia#1093on Dec 11, 2024, 5:57:28 PM
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Can this be done with comet on freeze? Right now ive been using your build but basically using walls to control the field and then using frost bombs to pop and freeze comet
yes, you can just go comet. note, that frostwall is a .8s cast, so will cast on every freeze. 66 max energy, and gain 100 energy on freeze.
comet is 1s+1s cast. 166 max energy. 2x.12=16.6 16.6x10. so, requires 2 freezes to cast. by default.
at level 10 cast on freeze support gem, gain 18% energy, +2 per level above.
so level 10 you actually get 118 energy.
level 12 you get 122.
a level 20 skill gem would be 138 energy on freeze.
and all three passives in the trigger passive cluster would be +24% for 162.
Impetus support gives +40%.
so level 12 gem +impetus support=162. +8% passive in trigger passive cluster gives 170 energy per freeze. thus will cast comet on every freeze.
level 14 Cast on freeze+impetus support, does not need the 8% passive.
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Posted byCasia#1093on Dec 11, 2024, 6:19:57 PM
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Hi Casia#1093
Been following your way and it clicks with me aswell
Im thinking of making frostwall less build too, as its too annoying in coop
Even with icicle and a passive for -wallhp
I was thinking of incremental progression for your tree and I cant put my finger on it. Maybe respec on 50 points
Any ideas? Like every 15 passive points
uh, I'm not avoiding frostwall, if anything I am going heavier on frostwall since Im doing that twice, instead of comet.
if I wasn't going frostwall, I probably would be going full on xbow grenades. As, focusing on Comet..why aren't we just playing stormweavers at that point?
for the record. The order for my build.
1 Breath of ice, 2 exploit the elements, 3 path of winter, 4 open mind, 5 endless blizard then glaciation/inescapable cold, 6 overexposure, 7 mental ala, 8 shattered crystal, 9 lucidity, 10 arcane blossom, 11 pliable flesh, 12 adverse growth, 13 all natural+breaking point, 14 aspirgin genuis+breaking point, 15 mental preservance, 16 enhanced barrier, 17 eldritch will. 18 maybe Eldritch battery.
in chrono, CD talents, then recoup.
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Posted byCasia#1093on Dec 11, 2024, 6:33:55 PM
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made some adjustments to the planned tree.
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I think I was already planning on harsh winter. but doing the math, I think Heavy frost is actively detrimental for sure.
in my build my frost wall has 75% cold pen, and 33% exposure on frost bomb iirc. hypothermia is even more cold resist reduction. so,frost wall, is almost certainly into the negatives. thus, zero resists on hits versus frozen targets, is a detriment.
FYI penetration cannot go below 0, so it cannot be a detriment here. For 1 more skill points, might even be worth taking and dropping some pen to pick up other damage nodes
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Posted byMarsJupiter#1136on Dec 11, 2024, 6:35:59 PM
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made some adjustments to the planned tree.
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I think I was already planning on harsh winter. but doing the math, I think Heavy frost is actively detrimental for sure.
in my build my frost wall has 75% cold pen, and 33% exposure on frost bomb iirc. hypothermia is even more cold resist reduction. so,frost wall, is almost certainly into the negatives. thus, zero resists on hits versus frozen targets, is a detriment.
FYI penetration cannot go below 0, so it cannot be a detriment here. For 1 more skill points, might even be worth taking and dropping some pen to pick up other damage nodes
pen takes you to zero. Exposure and hypothermia's reduction can take you below zero.
heavy frost would set you at zero, overwriting exposure and hypothermia.
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Posted byCasia#1093on Dec 11, 2024, 6:54:26 PM
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made some adjustments to the planned tree.
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I think I was already planning on harsh winter. but doing the math, I think Heavy frost is actively detrimental for sure.
in my build my frost wall has 75% cold pen, and 33% exposure on frost bomb iirc. hypothermia is even more cold resist reduction. so,frost wall, is almost certainly into the negatives. thus, zero resists on hits versus frozen targets, is a detriment.
FYI penetration cannot go below 0, so it cannot be a detriment here. For 1 more skill points, might even be worth taking and dropping some pen to pick up other damage nodes
pen takes you to zero. Exposure and hypothermia's reduction can take you below zero.
heavy frost would set you at zero, overwriting exposure and hypothermia.
Do we know the order of operations here? My assumption would be pen is applied last and also not contributing then. If it's first tho, then that's huge damage.
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Posted byMarsJupiter#1136on Dec 11, 2024, 7:09:16 PM
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This is how it works in poe 1. I am assuming its the same in poe 2. which, admittedly, is not a guarantee. recoup changed.
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Resistance
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Resistances can go below 0%, and have a hard cap of -200%.
Penetration is applied as damage is dealt, after other resistance calculations.
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Ignore resistances
Stats that grant the ability to ignore resistances prevent resistances from being calculated in the damage formula but do not affect the enemy's actual resistance stats. Mathematically, ignored resistances can be treated as always 0% and discards any further resistance increases or reductions, inversions, or penetration. This modifier can result in a damage loss if the ignored resistance was already negative.
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Resistance_penetration
admittedly, this does mean cold pen is irrelevant. but the exposure/hypothermia issue still applies. if you are using them, heavy frost can be a detriment. Last edited by Casia#1093 on Dec 11, 2024, 7:43:10 PM
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Posted byCasia#1093on Dec 11, 2024, 7:40:25 PM
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The builds and insights you guys have been sharing on this thread have been a godsend so far.
In response to the comment above about Heavy Frost being detrimental, I did a few tests to verify that the in-game text of the passive is correct and it makes damage ignore both negative and positive resistances, not just positive.
I used a unique mob in the acts as a dummy and recorded the damage numbers my Cold Snap with Controlled Destruction (remove the random crits out of the data) deals with/without the passive and with/without negative res from curse and exposure.
I can confirm that the text is correct and taking this passive, assuming you use both the curse and Frost Bomb on a rare or a boss AND the mob has 0 base resist, makes me do 72% (!!!) less damage to that mob.
There are mobs out there with 50%+ cold resists (gold icon) and some of them don't go into negative (red icon) for me even with the debuffs applied. If you have any pen picked from the tree, usually the easily available 45% from Glaciation and Breath of Ice cluster, with the curse and exposure you can still get the mobs effective cold resist to 0, so you're not missing out on any damage my not taking the passive.
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Posted byKlimon#7972on Dec 11, 2024, 8:04:07 PM
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