Seems the new Retaliation Skills were only a Pipe Dream after all...

It's very interesting to read some of these comments after many have gone by, back and forth.

How do people think they have the information or experience required to comment on whether something works or not, is good or not, based solely on incorrectly interpreted statistics or how it used to work? Especially in this case where the "new" version is nothing remotely like the old version.

Wouldn't you think, at a bare minimum, you would have to actually....idk....TRY the skills in a build before passionately refuting everything others say that actually DO play with the skills?

Just sayin. You don't HAVE to post on everything just to try and "show off". More often than not, it just leads to posts that literally sound nonsensical. And playing counter skills prior to the new retaliation skills....doesn't lend you any credit towards knowing what the retaliation skills are. That's like saying you are qualified to talk about tornado shot when the only build you've ever played is Righteous Fire.

I loved counter skills. Built them all the time. Haven't made a retaliation build yet. Don't really want to. But I can't say something like "Retaliation skills are a total failure" just because there isn't Reckoning in the game anymore. What I can make judgments on is whether I will enjoy playing them, or maybe how difficult they'd be to build with. But if someone more dexterous than me wants to make a badass, massively damaging build with the slam one...awesome!

"

mefistozxz wrote:

That's like saying you are qualified to talk about tornado shot when the only build you've ever played is Righteous Fire.

Serious question: Does it actually read like I know fuck all? We all know the answer to that, yet some of y'all are too busy trying to discredit me rather than come up with something productive to add to the discussion. It honestly makes me not want to participate on here because it always devolves into this mud slinging bullshit.

"

BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

"

mefistozxz wrote:

That's like saying you are qualified to talk about tornado shot when the only build you've ever played is Righteous Fire.

Serious question: Does it actually read like I know fuck all? We all know the answer to that, yet some of y'all are too busy trying to discredit me rather than come up with something productive to add to the discussion. It honestly makes me not want to participate on here because it always devolves into this mud slinging bullshit.

You are being very assertive about your arguments and you debate everything down to semantics. So yes, it reads like you know fuck all (quoting you here). That at least is the impression I, and apparently most other posters have had from what I can tell.

---

Anyway, to put things into perspective:

When you already have active skills that have a base damage multiplier of roughly 600% and an added damage multiplier of, again, roughly 600%, with NO cooldowns, why in the fuck would you ever want to use a skill that requires a blocked hit, has a time limit and a cooldown?

Outside of specific niche use cases, they just don't make any sense.

Thank you for confirming. Wiser folks would take this chance to take a break from the keyboard...

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

---

I'm still waiting for you to add anything productive to this discussion that I can actually debate. So far, it's only been disguised insults and backhanded wittery.

If you are actually able to have a civil discussion, I'd like to hear your counter arguments. I'm happy to disagree with you, but at least do me courtesy of actually trying to debate my arguments instead of just childish discrediting.

May I remind you that you started that last post with "Serious question: [...]" and I gave you a serious answer, since you asked for one?

I genuinely don't understand what your angle is here.

"

BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

Doesn't matter if that small percentage is "not having any issues whatsoever". They do not define what makes a skill good or bad. From a design perspective, these are terrible because they do not work in the setting that is PoE 1.

I feel like this didn't get enough attention...I mean if people are having no issue whatsoever, doesn't that literally mean they are working in the setting that is PoE 1? Are these skills being used in D4?

Especially since we are talking about percentages of the entire playerbase, meaning its not just like 1 or 2 people at Ben_'s level messing around trolling bosses with basic attacks...its an actual substantial number of players making them work just fine.

"

mefistozxz wrote:

"

BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

Doesn't matter if that small percentage is "not having any issues whatsoever". They do not define what makes a skill good or bad. From a design perspective, these are terrible because they do not work in the setting that is PoE 1.

I feel like this didn't get enough attention...I mean if people are having no issue whatsoever, doesn't that literally mean they are working in the setting that is PoE 1? Are these skills being used in D4?

If you actually spend the time looking at stats instead of taking someone else's words for it, you'd notice that a whopping 2% use Eviscerate, Crushing Fist sees a 0.7% usage, Vengeful Cry 0.6%, Swordstorm 0.3%, Divine Retribution and Glacial Shield Swipe at 0.1%, and it's mostly max Block Glads that use them as a complimentary to their builds.

And if you start analyzing why that is, it's because it's used by Bleed builds and the gem doesn't have an ailment damage penalty as Crushing Fist does and has a 3s cooldown compared to 4s, while offering more base damage than the other skills and it always applies Bleed. And that is a niche use case, which does not refute any of my previous points.

"

BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

Serious question: Does it actually read like I know fuck all? We all know the answer to that, yet some of y'all are too busy trying to discredit me rather than come up with something productive to add to the discussion. It honestly makes me not want to participate on here because it always devolves into this mud slinging bullshit.

.