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Aside from the conversation being derailed(again):
Taking steam charts as clear evidence of anything is simply utilizing really, really bad information because multiple sources state that steam accounts for 60% of the player base, fluctuation of course. Acknowledging you're ignoring 40% of viable data into any serious study would automatically make that study instead a joke. That applies here. Considering how it's not possible to calculate how many players even know Maven exists, least of all having fought her, it's really laughable how any accurate conclusion can be taken from that data, at all. Data treatment to show patterns must come from 100% of available data, or data treatment becomes data manipulation.
Huge spikes and equally huge dips are built into the financial model of the game's release cycle. PoE isn't about retention day to day or week to week, but league to league. As long as each league release sees a huge spike and that spike reflects financial support, the dips could be literally zero and it doesn't really matter. Conversely, there could be no dip at all but if financial contributions themselves became near zero past the first few weeks, then, technically, it's the exact same situation.
I'm not aware of some data that indicates players from the PoE launcher exhibit behaviors that are different than those of the Steam launcher? I'd actually be interested in that if you can back that up.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
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Posted byDarthSki44on Sep 5, 2024, 8:42:01 PMOn Probation
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At this point I'm speechless at the obtuseness. It's at an epic level.
Even if we remove all the data and simply go from an emotional, unscientific, purely speculative guess work standpoint, and I ask a simple question:
My simple question: Are the numbers on poe any different from most f2p games?
You called only 20% tacking post story is bad... that 20% came from where? I would guess from your rear, and you want to talk unscientific?
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Acknowledging you're ignoring 40% of viable data into any serious study would automatically make that study instead a joke
Data treatment to show patterns must come from 100% of available data, or data treatment becomes data manipulation
Actually, you dont need 100% of the data to reach a conclusion, its the concept of sample and most statistics are made with small groups and extending conclusions to larger groups. Unless theres reason to think the average steam player and the average client player differ significantly, you CAN take just the steam players and extend the conclusion to every player
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Posted byfeikeon Sep 5, 2024, 8:45:13 PM
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that 20% came from where? I would guess from your rear, and you want to talk unscientific?
It's actually less than that, the achievement for opening a map and entering is 16%. This isn't a trust me bro situation. You can verify. I was just rounding.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
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Posted byDarthSki44on Sep 5, 2024, 8:52:04 PMOn Probation
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that 20% came from where? I would guess from your rear, and you want to talk unscientific?
It's actually less than that, the achievement for opening a map and entering is 16%. This isn't a trust me bro situation. You can verify. I was just rounding.
Kinda funny you take this as a valid data while only 15% finished campaign, so less people could actually open a map than actually did. Numbers don't add up and you didn't noticed? There is a reason for that.
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Well at least I'm basing my conclusions on actual data
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over 80% not making it to maps seems bad :/ though
I wouldn't call claim that "80% of PoE players not reaching maps" including people who downloaded but never really played the f2p game in last 12 years, and try to apply it to current league, as "actual data" in any way or form nor anyone who deals with data would.
And then you add 16% entered map, while only 15% could even do that... And that didn't still seemed normal to you ;)
Biggest compliments for my crafted items - "bs, they must have been RMT'ed"
I'm disabled, I have rare case of semperduravera, so I can write things that may look rude, but it is because of disability - I'm forced to tell truth using words you may not like. Last edited by Nomancs on Sep 5, 2024, 8:58:23 PM
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Posted byNomancson Sep 5, 2024, 8:56:07 PM
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Actually, you dont need 100% of the data to reach a conclusion, its the concept of sample and most statistics are made with small groups and extending conclusions to larger groups. Unless theres reason to think the average steam player and the average client player differ significantly, you CAN take just the steam players and extend the conclusion to every player
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I'm not aware of some data that indicates players from the PoE launcher exhibit behaviors that are different than those of the Steam launcher? I'd actually be interested in that if you can back that up.
There's no need to. You can't attempt to assert what behavior is exhibited if data to corroborate what that behavior is doesn't exists. The only affirmation you can possible make is confirmation bias.
The only fact is that there's inaccessible and/or unverifiable data. It's impossible to take any accurate affirmations from that. You can conclude what you want, but it's guess work at best.
It's like trying to say that because sea water has one type of fauna, lake water must behave the same and ignore all the intricacies of the other group.
Ruthless should be [Removed by Support]. Last edited by AdRonZh3Ro on Sep 5, 2024, 9:00:02 PM
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Posted byAdRonZh3Roon Sep 5, 2024, 8:57:24 PMOn Probation
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Actually, you dont need 100% of the data to reach a conclusion, its the concept of sample and most statistics are made with small groups and extending conclusions to larger groups. Unless theres reason to think the average steam player and the average client player differ significantly, you CAN take just the steam players and extend the conclusion to every player
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I'm not aware of some data that indicates players from the PoE launcher exhibit behaviors that are different than those of the Steam launcher? I'd actually be interested in that if you can back that up.
There's no need to. You can't attempt to assert what behavior is exhibited if data to corroborate what that behavior is doesn't exists. The only affirmation you can possible make is confirmation bias.
The only fact is that there's inaccessible and/or unverifiable data. It's impossible to take any accurate affirmations from that. You can conclude what you want, but it's guess work at best.
I mean sampling is absolutely valid methodology in statistical analysis. It's done all the time...in fact it's almost entirely how you model. Not sure where you are going with this in general.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
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Posted byDarthSki44on Sep 5, 2024, 8:59:06 PMOn Probation
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I mean sampling is absolutely valid methodology in statistical analysis. It's done all the time...in fact it's almost entirely how you model. Not sure where you are going with this in general.
Oh, sure, when we are talking about material samples, but when we talk about human sampling and psychology, that has so much bias involved it might as well be useless.
Ever heard of people swallowing 8 spiders a year while they sleep on average? Yeah. LoL.
Ruthless should be [Removed by Support]. Last edited by AdRonZh3Ro on Sep 5, 2024, 9:08:17 PM
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Posted byAdRonZh3Roon Sep 5, 2024, 9:04:00 PMOn Probation
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I mean sampling is absolutely valid methodology in statistical analysis. It's done all the time...in fact it's almost entirely how you model. Not sure where you are going with this in general.
Oh, sure, when we are talking about material samples, but when we talk about human sampling and psychology, that has so much bias involved it might as well be useless.
Uhhh...what about polls, surveys, census, analysis on expected behaviors, and much more.
Again this happens all the time. It's truly the only reasonable way to forecast. 100% is often impossible, and frankly not really needed.
Edit: But damn we are super sidetracked now :(
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44 on Sep 5, 2024, 9:10:32 PM
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Posted byDarthSki44on Sep 5, 2024, 9:09:53 PMOn Probation
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I mean sampling is absolutely valid methodology in statistical analysis. It's done all the time...in fact it's almost entirely how you model. Not sure where you are going with this in general.
You counted people who never played the game, or played it once years ago, and declared it to be relevant statistic for current league. That's not how it work :) Its like you plan to release cloths for modern teenagers, but used survey from 18th century :D
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Ever heard of people swallowing 8 spiders a year while they sleep on average? Yeah. LoL.
My neighbor and his dog have 3 legs on average ;) Man, this is a real problem!
Biggest compliments for my crafted items - "bs, they must have been RMT'ed"
I'm disabled, I have rare case of semperduravera, so I can write things that may look rude, but it is because of disability - I'm forced to tell truth using words you may not like.
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Posted byNomancson Sep 5, 2024, 9:14:03 PM
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Uhhh...what about polls, surveys, census, analysis on expected behaviors, and much more.
Again this happens all the time. It's truly the only reasonable way to forecast. 100% is often impossible, and frankly not really needed.
Edit: But damn we are super sidetracked now :(
Superficial at best, inaccurate and manipulative at worst. It's even less trustworthy when you take into account the "why" of some surveys are done. Also, all of those cited assume the origin and veracity of data are accurate, which further LoL.
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Ever heard of people swallowing 8 spiders a year while they sleep on average? Yeah. LoL.
My neighbor and his dog have 3 legs on average ;) Man, this is a real problem!
Ruthless should be [Removed by Support]. Last edited by AdRonZh3Ro on Sep 5, 2024, 9:27:25 PM
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Posted byAdRonZh3Roon Sep 5, 2024, 9:20:39 PMOn Probation
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