6000 hours of Melee Scientific Expert Tells You the Truth- Melee changes ACTUALLY 100% suck

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sidtherat wrote:

out of all these league starters all but LS and MS/FB will be abandoned day 6 of the week. Ziz's bleed lacerate deals 4m damage with very, very solid gear.. 4 million. its laughable damage and people are excited? like seriously - why?

I mean on HC 4 mil with a well rounded character suitable for most endgame is pretty solid i'll take that as an improvement, you won't get it in .24 (well not as melee outside of the 2 overperformers)

can't deny its far less than I have been playing with recently though, but for me it still means its become playable rather than not I think that is exciting :p

Agreed complete about return proj enchant btw, it will dominate the entire league again I would have avoided it personally.

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Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

The available mana is 2x lower than what's necessary to not lose damage from missing mana after starting an attack.

Have to remove a 25% reservation aura to have enough to not go OOM while having max leech.

Good thing that is not one of your characters, you dont have a reave character.

And the build you posted before was from 3.2

Maybe "spend 20 mirrors and max all the sliders" next time so you dont run into mana issues. Or not use a build from Lake of Kalandra.

Take your pick.

Here's probably whats true about that reave build. It wasnt this persons build to begin with. This was some other persons build that was taken and had very small tweaks to it and published on the forum as their own build. Thats probably why it has so many issues all over the "3.2 reave" thread, and why it currently is having issues, the "author" has no idea how to scale or "fix" it with all the large changes that have been done.

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Mashgesture wrote:

Good thing that is not one of your characters, you dont have a reave character.

And the build you posted before was from 3.2

What's also very funny to me is that somehow, having 164 free mana to perform 3 attacks with their repeats is "2x lower than what's necessary to not lose damage from missing mana after starting an attack". Only after willingly attacking air 3 times with their repeats would you be oom. Anyone with actual melee experience, you know that's not happening unless you want that to happen.

For a complete noob to be making that mistake, sure, i can see it happening. But people flaunting 4-30mill+ dps builds and still making rookie mistakes? Oof.

Fyi, Leap Slamming with Faster Attacks(or using Close Combat in your main setup) and one ring with -7 mana cost brings it to 4 cost, which mana regen is more than enough to sustain 3 leap slams/sec, meaning you can leap slam away from everything without any issue and whatever excuse to dying to supposed oom. But i guess that's too advanced for the experts.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

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Mashgesture wrote:

Good thing that is not one of your characters, you dont have a reave character.

And the build you posted before was from 3.2

What's also very funny to me is that somehow, having 164 free mana to perform 3 attacks with their repeats is "2x lower than what's necessary to not lose damage from missing mana after starting an attack". Only after willingly attacking air 3 times with their repeats would you be oom. Anyone with actual melee experience, you know that's not happening unless you want that to happen.

For a complete noob to be making that mistake, sure, i can see it happening. But people flaunting 4-30mill+ dps builds and still making rookie mistakes? Oof.

Yea I mean its a build from their "3.20 reave reborn" thread. Saying in another thread:

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Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

As someone who has played Reave for literally 10-15 leagues, what you are looking there is a nerf, not a buff.

but as said before, there's not even a single reave character on their account. Much less 10-15 leagues worth of characters in general.

Then I go and read through the forum posts on the "build" and its just issue after issue after "this looks cool" but not actually running the build. One guy had like a 3m damage setup thats all I could find through like 20 pages.

Eyebrows further get raised, not just by the bait and false title in the OP, but earlier in this thread I show them a slam build and the OP says "its 20 mirrors with all the sliders maxxed" with like less than 20 divs worth of items, no sliders turned up at all and even molten shell off. Cause they cant handle being wrong.


I am trying to dig around to try to find something similar to the reave build being posted but everyone just does chaos with it in the last two leagues at least on the leaderboards, and they are all WAY above the damage posted there, but also WAY more cracked in items. Nothing promising and kind of reinforcing where I think that reave build originated from.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

Only after willingly attacking air 3 times with their repeats would you be oom. Anyone with actual melee experience, you know that's not happening unless you want that to happen.

If you would play melee, you would know that after the first attack you make, your next attack will also take mana from a pool which hasn't started leeching at full speed yet.

That is why if you have a 29 per attack skill with 79 unreserved mana, you still end up often 11-30 mana and lower while you are attacking.

On top of that if you want to use other skills for buffs or movement ( you do almost every 3 seconds ), you will start from a lower pool than the 79.



Here I have 2.7x attack's cost unreserved. If it was only 2x, I would be OOM and lost DPS mid-fight, mid-leech.



This is as basic leech knowledge as it gets, but here we are. Or you can make a clip with 30 mana unreserved on a 30 mana skill and show us how you maintain the same attack speed, but I know you won't (:

I only played melee twice but each time was attack speed extremely important for the feel and effectiveness of the build. Both boneshatter and cyclone herald of agony needed high attack speed to feel good and perform well.

This I why I won`t league start melee even while it is supposedly buffed is attack speed nerfed.

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Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

Only after willingly attacking air 3 times with their repeats would you be oom. Anyone with actual melee experience, you know that's not happening unless you want that to happen.

If you would play melee, you would know that after the first attack you make, your next attack will also take mana from a pool which hasn't started leeching at full speed yet.

That is why if you have a 29 per attack skill with 79 unreserved mana, you still end up often 11-30 mana and lower while you are attacking.

On top of that if you want to use other skills for buffs or movement ( you do almost every 3 seconds ), you will start from a lower pool than the 79.

Here I have 2.7x attack's cost unreserved. If it was only 2x, I would be OOM and lost DPS mid-fight, mid-leech.

This is as basic leech knowledge as it gets, but here we are. Or you can make a clip with 30 mana unreserved on a 30 mana skill and show us how you maintain the same attack speed, but I know you won't (:

If you would play melee, you would know that after the first attack you make, your next attack with Multistrike won't take mana from your pool.

That is why if you have a 29 per attack skill with 79 unreserved mana, it will take you 9 attacks, not 3, to even reach those 79 unreserved mana.

On top of that if you want to use other skills for buffs or movement, it would only be a problem if for some reason you didn't connect your attacks, 3 times in a row.

It is indeed basic leech knowledge, which makes me wonder why we are here, you showing utter lack of understanding of basic mana usage, the "expert", tripling down in his lack of understanding of how Multistrike works in the build you showed that was using Multistrike. :)

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

your next attack with Multistrike won't take mana from your pool.

That's just equivocating, as what I mean is an attack skill cast, not just APS - which in this case is 29 mana.

If your theory ought to be true, make us a clip with a 30 mana attack that has 30 mana unreserved.

The first attack is free and the other one has already a minimum of 150 leech per hit.

Easy money.

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Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

That's just equivocating, as what I mean is an attack skill cast, not just APS - which in this case is 29 mana.

If your theory ought to be true, make us a clip with a 30 mana attack that has 30 mana unreserved.

The first attack is free and the other one has already a minimum of 150 leech per hit.

Easy money.

Equivocating? It's truly wonderful that your only argument left is to straw man mine.

My mana cost atm is 31 for Volcanic Fissure of Snaking, my available mana is 43. A worst scenario than any of yours. But you know what's even better? Not only i never had any issues with it using only Fuel the Fight, doesn't matter what build i pick, you will make every effort to disprove it with rhetoric and fallacies because you can't stand being proven wrong, again and again, yet again.

Demanding video proof when all you provide is mediocre screen shots. Go bait another topic, this one isn't your area of expertise.

Seems like melee will need to incorporate some "mana on hit" jewels in addition to leech? Seems annoying but not unsolvable.

I see examples in screenshots with 6APS. Some mana on hit jewels could help to lessen the blow?

I'm not saying what you guys are saying isn't correct. Seems like everyone is coming from their very specific build perspective.

Good thing is, that if there is some issue where high-aps builds suffer too much, the forums will be lit up with complaints and GGG will step in.

I'd like to point out that casters are getting a bit of a nerf this league as well. Divine blessing changes mean caster either have to use a crappy pair of boots or just lose an aura. Also the PDR from Phys-as hurts everyone. Casters will have to start looking more at hybrid life/es pools to be able to take some hits. EB will be difficult to justify (especially if you aren't using divine blessing auras).

Just saying, everyone is going to need time to figure stuff out. Who knows... with nerfed t17s, maybe all of these concerns really only affect Uber farmers. I'd argue that people trying to get ubers on farm SHOULD have to take extra steps to perfect their build.

I feel like you guys are fighting over semantics. I will concede, however, the removing IAS over and over again over the last 2 years makes melee FEEL very annoying and "not snappy". That's probably my biggest issue with the new melee.