6000 hours of Melee Scientific Expert Tells You the Truth- Melee changes ACTUALLY 100% suck

So many misunderstood and misled opinions based on misinterpreted numbers.

This isn't science in this thread, this is pseudoscience. Everything number related with melee only applies under certain circumstances with certain characters with certain builds with certain skill gems with certain utilities in certain situations.

You CANNOT blanket term melee without jamming a hundred fallacies in every statement. It's akin to blanket terming any of the other 2 and expecting a simple outcome.

You MUST take into account certain offensive situations, certain farming capabilities, certain overwhelming utilitarian purposes like; stun, knockback, range, aoe, crit, elements, physical, impale, bleed, rupture, poison, and a great deal of excess defensive capabilities.

There's no room for opinions in this until systems and builds are tested and retested.

^not true at all. There are way more commonalities across all melee than there are "unique" situations. As such, you can draw plenty of general conclusions across a wide swath of melee.

Of course there will be outliers, that is true in science too. Such as things like flicker strike being the only(?) melee gem with reduced mana cost this league. Or things like projectile melee skills getting buffed yet again by tangential projectile-specific buffs.

If science/data were required to control for every infinitesimally small detail...we would get nowhere. You merely have to point out that certain situations may arise that you did not account for, because no one can account for everything, ever.

**Off-topic: Love the petty signature....can't wait to see what happens after week 1 / week 2 of the league. Takes a special kind of person to be that vitriolic, while also being wrong. Huge shout out to 3.15 and the near-instant mana correction patch, after ruining mana costs. Those ignorant of history are bound to repeat it.

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funplayer wrote:

So many misunderstood and misled opinions based on misinterpreted numbers.

This isn't science in this thread, this is pseudoscience. Everything number related with melee only applies under certain circumstances with certain characters with certain builds with certain skill gems with certain utilities in certain situations.

You CANNOT blanket term melee without jamming a hundred fallacies in every statement. It's akin to blanket terming any of the other 2 and expecting a simple outcome.

You MUST take into account certain offensive situations, certain farming capabilities, certain overwhelming utilitarian purposes like; stun, knockback, range, aoe, crit, elements, physical, impale, bleed, rupture, poison, and a great deal of excess defensive capabilities.

There's no room for opinions in this until systems and builds are tested and retested.

You can compare the math of a build from last league to this league though. Regardless if you have played it or not. Most people are sharing experience from the various specific builds they have played and how they seem to be played in 3.25 based on the changes.

There is possibly new tech that we don't know about. That is what I'm hoping for.

Either way I've never seen so many people pobbing melee and regardless if its comparable to spells/proj skills that have been meta for a while. There will be tech that comes out of all of this obsession. Its been stale for a long time cause very few people were still interested in solving melees problems.

despite all that GGG did this patch, melees problem is, and is going to be frankly idiotic damage situation

] phys weapons - crap, buff or no buff, doesnt matter
] flat ele weapons - slightly less crap because they simply have a) bigger numbers b) more ways of scaling (negative resists etc)
] 'stacking' - amazing. GGG did the 'easy' way of buffing skills and simply upped the %. what benefits large % the most. 300-400 1h axe or 2500 flat chaos damage from boots? the bigger the %, the larger the gap here.


STR stacking, Alberons and shit - no matter what skill you pick, amazing. you can bonk bonk ubers with heavy strike, ezpz
the same skill, the same content but with phys 6*T1 weapon and competent build? fraction of the performance
(the phys build is most likely more expensive btw)

this is what makes fixing melee such a horrid task. these 'outliers' are so much stronger than the 'normal ways' that in fact there is very little reason to try normal ways. each time i see people crafting T1 phys weapons i just wonder WHY? just spend that money on stacking gear, get better results


i check what people do, their pobs for melee bulds and while they look better than 3.24 (sans mana issues, this sucks) - we are still hovering around 10m tops
UNLESS they just wear STR stacking gear (yes, it still works, BM nerf did not kill it) - then the numbers suddenly jump to 100m+

these bleed builds are fine, im sure people will make slams work (albeit the playstyle is not for everybody) but skills like Sweep? hit based, no-stacking, uber-viable Sweep build?

Bro if Gorathas retaliation build turns out cracked thats just one more item to add to the list of things that the "experts" were wrong about.

Ah what a time to expose.

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sidtherat wrote:

these bleed builds are fine, im sure people will make slams work (albeit the playstyle is not for everybody) but skills like Sweep? hit based, no-stacking, uber-viable Sweep build?

I'll get back to you in a week or two with the answer to this.

As an avid melee user (cyclone) melee is effectively ruined. If you think otherwise give me an example of a proper melee build that doesn't sacrifice all defenses (essential for melee builds). I have been theorycrafting a settler build and everything scales like crap. For reference I had a build in ancestor that did 43m fully sustained dps with regular cyclone and I had 1m EHP (jug). I could tank uber bosses and kill them fairly quickly. Yea, totems were annoying, and yea it would be great to get rid of them, but it feels like we didn't get any proper compensation (banners suck tbh). One of the major problems is that my ancestor build scaled chaos damage and that is ruined now. That same build does 1.9m dps after the changes. Chaos damage was one of the few routes a melee build could take to get proper dps without insane investments. I had to spend 30 div to get 43m and would have been doing 200m with a few mirrors. Now I'm sitting here with a league starter that does 1.5m dps and has 260k EHP. It is crap for bosses and sucks at clearing fast. Any ideas I have to get good dps require much higher investments. By good dps I mean at least 10m. Good luck even getting 20 without being a glass cannon. Meanwhile I play with players that proj spam and get 20m+ dps with low investments because GGG keeps seemingly catering to proj spam builds while demolishing melee. I'll get my build to 10m+ with tankiness but give me like half the league and several more div to have it come to fruition given the state of melee rn. Also, cyclone of tumult is crap. The mana cost is unsustainable without investing in mana cost/regen which takes away from the already crap dps scaling so I end up with less dps just to run the skill without lifetap which ruins my life regen. We need a lot more flat skill damage if scaling is going to be so crap for melee (flat damage for a melee skill is still crap compared to other skills so yay for the increase xd). It's wild that we had a major dps issue with melee and now we have even more of an issue because we lost our most important dps sources without sufficient compensation. Give me totems back so I can at least get end game viable dps with a league starter.

To add to my last post, there might be some unknown mechanic that can up dps but we have to dive pretty deep just to make melee playable atm. I can't go with my rep alberon str stacker anymore because the dps is crap.

I feel like melee defense feels barely acceptable as a slayer with suppress, 8 endurance charges, fortify, and overleech.

Something needs to give in how the games balanced like an entire monster damage overhaul.

Removing that much phys as ele destroyed a lot of defenses.

Dunno, never used that removed totem cuz it's dumb as an idea, and i will be mentally ashamed if ill use any totem.

Currently playing 2h sword melee witch with slams and before that patch i had feeling that melee sucks. It was really infair that some mages and archers deal more damage while being away from an actual danger.

Now my slams deal about double as much damage, my 2 golems recieve 45% of melee damage i get.. curses and sand stance also helps a lot.. dunnooo, i feel that now i can play it without such negative bout melee. It's just sweet.

By the way.. feels like you just stick with some meta build, it got nerfed and you go "oh nyooo game s ruined", but it's not.