Reminder: Selectable Character Gender is a "Minimum Bar."

No it isn't.

"

1453R wrote:

Touching on this because I keep seeing variations on it.

Obviously, Grinding Gear will do what they want. It's their game, they'll make it as they like. This does not mean their choices and decisions are immune to criticism, especially when their goal is to entice a large number of people into giving them money for their work.

Oh I read all your comments....Except you aren't providing critism. The product doesn't even exist yet. You are baiting. You are pre-judging. You are offering ultimatums.

There isn't a shred of criticism in this post. Just read how condescending the title of this thread is that you chose. That is the entire tone of your post. You are basically telling them "You better make it this way or else". You don't have that power nor the right. And in every subsequent post and reply, more and more condescension.

This whole thread starts with an unsubstantiated claim that character gender is some sort of immutable "Minimum" that must be met by modern video games. I don't believe this "issue" carries the weight you seem to think it does in video game popularity and design...

Now that's not to say customization is a bad thing. Generally, more customization in character creation is good and appealing. But I highly doubt NOT having it will be a dealbreaker. Just like it wasn't a dealbreaker for you, playing PoE 1 for 11 years without it. On a VERY active account (3500 posts).

Ah shit you replied without quoting and the thread went kaboom overnight.

Almost missed it.

Okay so yeah. Your points are valid.

Here's another one: I would argue that the male characters of PoE 1 hit more typical power fantasy tropes than the female ones. Let's take a quick look:

1. Marauder -- beefcake Conan type
2. Duellist -- Suave fencer
3. Shadow -- Stealthy assassin
4. Templar -- Wise Old Dude With a Stick

In contrast:

1. Witch -- emaciated, slightly infantilised outcast
2. Ranger -- stocky lesbian archer
3. Scion -- Mouthy Blonde with a leg wound that never heals

In GGG's slight defence, the closest any of them have to a normal body is probably the Scion or the Ranger. The shadow has serious back issues. The witch has noodle arms. The Templar is a scarecrow. The Maroider...yeah. The Duellist has a really big head.

I expect at least some of this will be handled by far more advanced character models in PoE 2. But otoh maybe the jank is part of the charm. Would a PoE too conscious of its character models seem to be chasing the devil's tail a bit too much?

Hmm. Anyway. I still agree that GGG needs to consider gender choices if they want PoE2 to be competitive on a larger scale but also feel a good game coerces a player into accepting its quirks and limitations. In other words, self insertion and light roleplaying may be a key to ARPG character creation (the moment they let you give your character a name and a class, that door is wide open), but if a game is really good, I am happy to play as anything to experience it.

To wit: in my gaming history, I have been a snake. A stick. A bird. A spaceship. A clone inside a spaceship. A beetle. A brick. A goblin. A ghost. A woman. A man. A blob. A dragon. A dragonman...

And so on. IF GGG want to commit to gender locked classes, and PoE 2 plays like the greatest ARPG ever (or just damn good), then that is that. Story that acknowledges said locks is a bonus. But if they choose that and it isn't damn good, it will be just another point of criticism.

In other words, there is a measure of gamble involved here.

Gender lock can be poignant. It can matter. It can tell you a lot about a game world. See Inquisitor Martyr. But I never found that the case for PoE 1. It was more just another example of "Diablo 2 did it, so will we". PoE 1 had enough fronts to push at the time, so eh.

Does PoE 2 have the same revolutionary approach? Not so far. It's looking mighty fune (fun? fine? okay thumbs) and alluring but I hesitate to call it the massive leap PoE 1 was from other RPGs of the time. So I suspect people will be less forgiving when it comes to features that seem antiquated or undercooked.

*shrug* Who knows. Pretty sure most of us are out of touch just by being here.


One last thought before my thumbs fall off: GGG got away with an mtx driven game that frankly very poorly shows off said mtxes because we supported on other grounds. Moral for some. Personal interest in a good ARPG that wasnt Diablo for others. And I know a lot of residual supporters are mostly going on inertia from their initial reason. I don't think TencentGGG can get away with that. People saying they don't care about this because they can hardly see their characters are judging on PoE 1, not 2. I would strongly recommend against that.

If PoE 2 is going to rely on paid aesthetics, it's gonna have to do a much better job of allowing players to appreciate and show them off than PoE 1 ever did.

And if you think this doesn't matter, or isn't tied to the game's image and success, take a look at how many more skins and shinies we are seeing in DIV atm. A LOT of people bought the totally unnecessary ultimate edition of the expansion pack. Kinda blows my mind tbh. And every single person who does, who rides around on their ultimate edition preorder battle cat, is one more message from the gamers to both other gamers and Blizzard themselves: we like this so much we are actually buying above and beyond what is necessary. Damn good optics, given the season is actually *gaining* players several weeks in.

"

feral_nature wrote:

go woke go broke.

Lol D4 has a gender selector and they most certainly did not go broke.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

"

feral_nature wrote:

go woke go broke.

Lol D4 has a gender selector and they most certainly did not go broke.

They also have waaaaay less item diversity. Waaaay higher budget. Much bigger studio(multiple at it) with everything that leads to regarding rigging. There is no way you can compare them to the size of GGG or expect them to make similar decisions. What are you on about?

"

arknath wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

"

feral_nature wrote:

go woke go broke.

Lol D4 has a gender selector and they most certainly did not go broke.

They also have waaaaay less item diversity. Waaaay higher budget. Much bigger studio(multiple at it) with everything that leads to regarding rigging. There is no way you can compare them to the size of GGG or expect them to make similar decisions. What are you on about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVshNDyBpyE

That's what hes on about lmao

"

arknath wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

"

feral_nature wrote:

go woke go broke.

Lol D4 has a gender selector and they most certainly did not go broke.

They also have waaaaay less item diversity. Waaaay higher budget. Much bigger studio(multiple at it) with everything that leads to regarding rigging. There is no way you can compare them to the size of GGG or expect them to make similar decisions. What are you on about?

No.

Jonathan already talked about rigging & models with PoE2. This isn't even remotely a tech problem or limitation. Also Tencent is massive. The "small indie company" shit ended LONG ago. Try something else, this dog don't hunt.

Also what did that even have to do with the "go woke go broke" comment anyways? What are you on about?

activision blizzard is also massive and has tons of money, yet they have the terrible bad abomination called D4.

Money or size doesn't really matter in this case cause it only comes down to what the devs want, not of what's possible or expected as bare minimum.
If they don't have genders it's just a choice of their own design just like bliz chooses to keep their game bad and as a money cow.

"

1453R wrote:

Now, before y'all @ me: yes, I know how these threads go. The forum userbase gets vehemently toxic towards anyone who expresses .

correction, say something they dont like and they pile on you.

its tiring. theres many polarizing opinions that splits the community, some would be for some would be against.

i actually dont mind differing opinions but many come from places with bad faith. some are quick to attack you as person or choose not even to understand a different pov.

i kinda identified several of them. and yeah it can get toxic. i deal with it by minimizing.

i watch a lot of asmon streams. he spits out a lot of truths and is hated for it. the jist of it is: waste youre time arguing with people online.

theres just too many different people online with different attitudes and backgrounds, different biases.

you cant "win them all", some argue in bad faith with no intention of understanding the other POV.

some dont want things to change for the better because it will cheapen their accomplishments for being able to do things while theyre hard.

some have strong preferences and really dont want things to change as it would make their experience worse

and some are not affected by whatever issue that is being brought up and might not understand nor have the empathy or even want to understand the issue as it doesnt affect them.

personally i give people benefit of doubt but i learn to quickly identify if theyre worth engaging my time. there are some people who fit those criteria in these forums to me.

everyone has their biases and everyone is the hero of their own story. and even i myself can sometimes be blinded by my biases.

"

Pashid wrote:

activision blizzard is also massive and has tons of money, yet they have the terrible bad abomination called D4.

Ha! I love me some of that terrible abomination! Along with millions of others. We will all be ok. I'm certainly not worried about D4 Bad videos or arpg elites looking down their nose at the game. It really really don't matter. I'd argue the D4 Bad stuff has jumped the shark into cringe territory. Sad really.

As a side note, I hope you are not serious about who is bigger, Tencent or Activision Blizzard. It's not even remotely close.

Edit: Anyways I should dip outta this thread before I get baited too much. On topic GGG can do whatever they want with gender options, as long as they are willing to reap what they sow. Seems to me like a missed opportunity, for no real gain I can see, but GGG gonna GGG.