Reminder: Selectable Character Gender is a "Minimum Bar."

I respectfully disagree. I embrace the lived experience of male and female characters as they are and acknowledge both genders have specific traits that relate to the classes in PoE. It's a deliberate choice by GGG to tell their story this way. If PoE 2 featured the ranger and witch as a male and the marauder and shadow as a female that would be fine to. Making everything in a game customizable just takes away the meaning and richness of these narrative/design choices by the creators. I don't understand why this is so controversial. I'm also glad GGG doesn't pander to an audience that wants to politicize everything. One of the reasons I find enjoyment in games is being able to escape the rat race of everyday life where you're completely engulfed in politics, status, money, and advertising.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

I would be playing something else, as i am.

I enjoyed the direction the game took when i bought the supports in this account, and then it went in a direction i didn't like, so i didn't support anymore. That's how anything works.

I made a statement about being entitled, you wandered into good manners somehow, don't put this on me.

Isn't it a simple flow chart? I said he's entitled for wanting something for free, you said the cost is hidden, i asked how is keeping the cost hidden a better thing (for the game).

Isn't that also the gamble "free games" make? Attract people with the game and hope they will pay for comfort or looks eventually?

Absolutely. We are on the same page and in agreement here.

The manners thing was just an example of how something many people consider 'free' is possibly not. An aside. Forgive my tendency for such.

I don't think keeping the cost hidden is a good thing at all. I'm an old, old whale of Wræclast and for the longest time resisted the argument that there were hidden costs. Easy to do when your natural state of being is 'rich AF' in terms of GGGold. I did have a free to play account or two and found them insufferably limited. Would I have done so had I only played f2p? Maybe not. Can't say. I only know that IF GGG has a hidden cost, it is in the storage department.

The game isn't meant to be free for everyone. Of course not. So I disagree that the OP is 'wanting something for free'. They (she?) are merely pointing out that certain features of ARPGs that might not have been standard before are pretty much standard now.

I elaborated on that along the way, but ultimately agree. Even if that means discarding class-specific models.

Which ironically is something PoE 1 could always have done given class identity in PoE 1 is flimsy as hell if you remove Ascendancies -- they can all equip the same skill gems, the same support gems, and they all traverse the same passive skill grid. I am fairly sure an early version of PoE 1 was just what would later become the Scion -- same starting place in the middle of a huge map allowing the player to choose a direction befitting their play style and desired skill set up.

For that they could easily have just done male and female models.

I liked the idea of Ascendancies as de facto prestige classes but have never liked how they implemented it. But that's another story for another time.

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Solrac_1 wrote:

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hmcg020 wrote:

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Solrac_1 wrote:

I totally agree, every class should be able to be both male and female. I'm only playing POE 2 if Witch and Sorceress have male options otherwise I'm skipping the game.

This post is not about gender not sex. So, some of the characteristics of both genders being able to be applied to whatever base sex-model like in BG3. Big dick, a beard and broad shoulders with a woman's voice, etc. Some people love that shit and a side effect is some hilarious combinations that we get to see. Others just want to see themselves in the game they're playing and that's a great thing for a company to be able to accommodate. I agree that I would like to have a sex-selection for each class. I don't expect GGG to aim for the progressive accolades BG3 got though.

BG3 received massive criticism for having attractive female character models. So, even though they had the most progressive character creation and some of the most progressive dialogue and romance options of any game every made, the hardcore leftists were still foaming at the mouth that it wasn't enough. As soon as GGG goes down that road, people who lament critical gender theory not being the focal point of the Dev team, will never stop. This is where the whole chud line of "get woke go broke" stems from.

This doesn't need to turn into a political debate, I just want to play as a male Witch, that's it.

lmao and you threatened if you don't get a male witch you're not playing

Gender selection would be a great feature. I would have thought that the new animations would be the most costly aspect of implementing it, not VO. In any case IIRC, GGG made $50 some million in pofit last year. A couple million more in VO expense seems hardly a challenge. The budget for POE2 must be a big one and spending a bit more to make it right seems like money well spent.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

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Glorfndel01 wrote:

Somehow having to buy MTX for gender choice seems...chincy as hell.

Offer as a choice at character creation or come across as cheap.

Thinking you are entitled to something in a free game comes across as cheap too.

the way i see it is its marketing.

do companies NEED to make both sexs for each character?

NO they dont. diablo 1-2 was fine with fixed gendered classes.

POE devs grew up from D2. a lot of what poe1 is has roots in d2.

on top of that

GGG HAD LESS MONEY and LESS TECH. everything was animated "by hand". i believe they didnt have the luxury of advanced skeleton rigging. they just wanted to make things work, also they didnt have too much money to hire so many voice talents.

so if talking about historical standpoint, theres a reason why we have genderlocked classes, and technically financial standpoint too.

but that said, making all classes NOT genderlocked can be touted as a FEATURE.

GGG has spent so much resources making POE2 accessible and to reach a wider audience.

anything "extra" is always a feature. features give value to the game. to be honest did GGG "have" to make POE2 look as good as it does? not entirely necessary but they did because people would like it more if looked better.

this translates to better reviews which promotes the game and will pique more players interest.

personally i feel that gender swapping is a "baseline" feature. we should always be able to differentiate what's baseline and whats extra.

would having genderswapped characters benefit ALL players? yes. would it encourage players to play a certain class? perhaps.

would it benefit GGG directly? to be honest, yes. this give benefit even to GGG as they can write it off as a feature or as part of marketing.

we're no longer living in 2000's. d2 was more than 20 years ago.

GGG now has money. its about time they got the feature in.

for comparison, d4 bad but they already started implemented genderswapping back in d3. undecember may be p2w but it has genderswapping. similarly even the failed wolcen has genderswapping. tho the last 2 examples kinda are bad coz they dont actually have locked classes (everyone starts classless). but it just goes to show that gender in games is a feature that would be good to have.

why does monster hunter have it? why does mmos have it?

the answer is to make the player attached to their character. when theyre attached they're more likely to buy mtx to doll up their fav character.

more genders opens up players to more mtx's.

its marketing.

i would however say that if there are "alternate base models" those probably could justify having a USD cost, such as "Karui warrior" to replace the marauder, or "Old Sage" to replace the monk.

gender swap? man what year do we live in?

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ChanBalam wrote:

Gender selection would be a great feature. I would have thought that the new animations would be the most costly aspect of implementing it, not VO. In any case IIRC, GGG made $50 some million in pofit last year. A couple million more in VO expense seems hardly a challenge. The budget for POE2 must be a big one and spending a bit more to make it right seems like money well spent.

That much profit? After dividends? Geeze Louise. They really do old you/we old whales something then. We were there for them when the game was hella budget. When (and this is apocryphal but I believe it) a Blizzard afterparty cost more than the entirety of PoE 1.

Ah, who am I kidding? They're a business. Giving back is a good way to lose money when it means nothing more than reinforcing an existing loyalty *or* won't encourage people to support more.

Whee I'm such a cynic these days.

Gender selection is like the last thing i care about in a game tbh

Maybe its just me. With opening statements like "modern game", "minimum requirements", and "gender" all in the first paragraph I cant unsee the direction of the rest of the post that I did not read.

In my opinion we dont need to be able to chose gender. But its for sure better if we could no question. But "Minimum bar".... not for me.

What could be a fantastic solution: Microtransactions enabling for example Witch-Modell with voicelines for other chars. You just would need to make some art for the pictures (for example picture for a juggernaut witch, a deadeye witch). Should be really cheap to introduce and they would probably sell some of that micros. Its a pure cosmetic micro too. So it would perfectly fit in a F2P game.

(switched modell would have same voicelines with every ascendency. A standard witch would have same voiceline as an jugg witch. it would just change the pictures and the used modell for an ascendency)

Here here!

Why is this a thing / thread? It is a game. It is an ARPG game. Doesn't matter who you are or what GENDER you are, if you can kill hordes of monsters and bosses then so be it.

Stop taking A GAME so personally. No reason to write a dissertation on the subject either... just LOG IN, have fun and PLAY!