POE2 and SSF

100% agree with this post.

I really don't get why tf GGG doesn't wanna to boost the popularity of SSF. It's still slower(ie more player retention) than trade even if they would buff drop rates by like 2x. And by default it automatically counters things like TFT and lets call them "sites that sell power to players"(which is essentially cheating).

There's gotta be some stuff they're not telling us here. Somehow, even if you include the above, SSF is still bad for revenue and player engagement, that's why they don't wanna make it more popular. Otherwise I think they would.

That's exactly what I'm hoping for too - MultiplayerSF, not trading, no extra loot, but grouping allowed. Brag about your gear, but dont miss on the fun of actually playing with other people. Groups shouldn't be only for trading.

nvm

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la_blue_girl wrote:

100% agree with this post.

Thanks!

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la_blue_girl wrote:

I really don't get why tf GGG doesn't wanna to boost the popularity of SSF. It's still slower(ie more player retention) than trade even if they would buff drop rates by like 2x. And by default it automatically counters things like TFT and lets call them "sites that sell power to players"(which is essentially cheating).

This is a really good point. In-game trade does tend to bring real-world wealth inequality to bear on the system (wealthy players tend to have more leisure time, and thus more time to grind and trade, and thus both more items to sell and more money to buy, etc.); RMT just allows a more direct conversion of IRL money to in-game assets. It might be inevitable; the only way to prevent external RMT might be to allow players to trade in-game with real money, which is safer for RMTers but worse for the game overall. I don't know that SSF solves that problem, either, but it does offers an alternative for those that want it.

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la_blue_girl wrote:

There's gotta be some stuff they're not telling us here. Somehow, even if you include the above, SSF is still bad for revenue and player engagement, that's why they don't wanna make it more popular. Otherwise I think they would.

Not sure about this. I'm applying Hanlon's Razor, here, and declining to attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by ignorance. GGG just aren't that metric-driven; I'm guessing that they haven't actually pulled telemetry on this stuff since the one time we know they did, i.e. after Forsaken Masters flopped. Plus, Jonathan seems to really, really, really love trading, and struggles to make head-space for the idea that others might not.

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That's exactly what I'm hoping for too - MultiplayerSF, not trading, no extra loot, but grouping allowed. Brag about your gear, but dont miss on the fun of actually playing with other people. Groups shouldn't be only for trading.

I've seen a few other threads on this topic, too. It seems like there's definitely some demand for a BroSF mode. It might be worth GGG's while to send out a poll on the topic.

Does it show, that I'm a bit of a data nerd? More data, please!

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gladiatorpie wrote:

Amazing how people want to lower the bar in SSF. You select hard mode, you get hard mode. It doesnt need parity nor should they invest resources into balancing the game for SSF.

SSF player here. SSF is not about "hard mode". It makes this game single player experience. Just that and woo thank GGG for that. Because i hate trading. I tried it couple times and dropped it as soon as SSF was introduced.

It wolud be nice to see some of those items that are on trade.

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de99ial wrote:

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gladiatorpie wrote:

Amazing how people want to lower the bar in SSF. You select hard mode, you get hard mode. It doesnt need parity nor should they invest resources into balancing the game for SSF.

SSF player here. SSF is not about "hard mode". It makes this game single player experience. Just that and woo thank GGG for that. Because i hate trading. I tried it couple times and dropped it as soon as SSF was introduced.

100%. It's SSF, not "hard mode". A change in 'difficulty' (in one direction or the other) is just a side-effect, it has nothing to do with why I select it.

its totally the wrong thing to do



most people dont trade to a significant degree and also dont want to play ssf. they essentially play ssf as far as their loot goes but they party with their friends, their partner plays the game and they map together in the evening but they dont trade in the economy, they occasionally buy 1 build enabling unique and swap 5c for some chroms in the space of a 3 month league, they dont interact with the trade economy at all ever but want to be able to ask someone in global for help with someothing once in a while.



what happens to these people? if i never want to trade but i want to party with my wife now and then what do i do?



the longevity of the game for a lot of people comes from the social side of the game, from guilds, from playing with friends, from being part of a trade economy. but almost no one comes to this game thinking thats what they want to do. almost everyone comes to this game and thinks i want to kill some monsters alone in a dungeon and find cool loot. so if u have a big button there that says hey, if you press this button you find more loot people will say fuck yeah thats the button for me.

and then they are in a mode where they cant party with anyone, cant make friends, cant trade and they are now invested into that mode thats where there characters are, their items, progression and if they want to make a friend and play with that friend they now what? have to abandon all their characters and gear in their stash and go play a completely new game mode starting from nothing just to have a friend they can play with? that barrier that now exists between them and doing anything social in the game is ridiculously big. but right now the vast majority of people who trade a lot for whom the entire reason they stayed for 10k hours rather than stopping at 100 hours is the trade and social side of the game almost all started in that same position and then were able to transition to being a trading player without any real barrier, as it should be.



its terrible for the game, it is so bad for a game like this. i know a lot of people wont listen to what im saying because they just want more loot and wont listen to any consideration other than their own selfish desire to just have more stuff but its true.




if stuff is not rewarding to farm solo that should just be fixed in the game as a whole. there are a number of systems right now that are shit to farm yourself, they all just need fixed for everyone and if that is to the detriment of the economy then fk the economy it should just be fixed because the game is more healthy without barriers than it is with those bits of content being slightly trade trivialised.

honestly theres not many o0f them, most of the game is an outrageous loot shower for solo players and most of this is just people unreasonably wanting more loot that they dont need. solo players have more gear now than the trading elite had 8 years ago. drop rates are so stupidly high that its literally crashing peoples games in single player instances.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

and then they are in a mode where they cant party with anyone, cant make friends, cant trade and they are now invested into that mode thats where there characters are, their items, progression and if they want to make a friend and play with that friend they now what? have to abandon all their characters and gear in their stash and go play a completely new game mode starting from nothing just to have a friend they can play with? that barrier that now exists between them and doing anything social in the game is ridiculously big.

Pressing escape, clicking "exit to character creation" and making a new character in the multiplayer league takes about thirty seconds. I think your standard for a "ridiculously big barrier" is a little miscalibrated.

It's not a complex conversation, even when dealing with very new players:

"Hey do you want to try playing POE together?"
"Sure, what do I do?"
"Start it up and make a new character; make sure to choose 'Affliction League' and not tick 'solo self-found'"
"Okayyyyy...done! I'm on a beach?"
"Cool, I'll send you a party invite!"

I don't know why you imagine people are so mentally stuck. Practically everyone deals with more stressful problems than this in their lives every single day.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

what happens to these people? if i never want to trade but i want to party with my wife now and then what do i do?

Use the "Migrate All" function in character select and take all their items, all their characters and their progression to trade league.

I understand your stance, but there are some casuals out there who just want to stay away from the rat race trade league market cornering cesspool and just enjoy some exile-hood.

For all I care, as a player, create a new mode (SSF-C or smth), & please lock us from migrating into the trade league, but I would greatly appreciate it if there's an SSF mode that is not balanced around the trade league's drop rate.