Who here would be willing to forego a whole expansion just to get a AH like WoW has?

You don't even know what a strawman argument is. I'd be guilty of one if I refuted an argument you didn't make. Let's look at our conversation:

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ArtCrusade wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

How is that any different that farming up dozens or hundreds of divines for an upgrade here in POE?

It is different because gold holds no inherent value other than the ability to purchase an item from a vendor or another player. It's a median currency, whereas currency items in PoE have a practical use. I.e. someone who doesn't trade can still use the items to craft items themselves

The sharp reader will notice that I engage with your question how the trade economies between Path of Exile and Diablo differ. Truthful to the matter I explain an aspect of it to you.

You then immediatly jumped to saying that my 'argument' is 'pseudo at best' as you can read here:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

That's a pseudo argument at best. For one, most people in SC trade don't use their currency for crafting so it only applies to a tiny little minority in the first place and that tiny little minority has to use trade nonetheless because there is no way to get the amount of divines and other crafting materials needed for high or top end crafting by yourself. Even mediocre crafting projects can easily end up costing 10+ divines with a bit of bad luck. Good luck getting enough raw divine drops to support that without trade. Nevermind the other crafting materials involved. The current league mechanic might allow for that but in leagues like crucible? Not happening.

Not only are you being dishonest, you are also attempting to gaslight me into believing that what you did is what I did. It is, in fact, not.

To bring it back to the original point argued: while the current trade system is by no means perfect and pretty much everyone agrees that it isn't, jumping to an extreme like completely removing trade and instead boosting drop rates to accomodate for the fact is short-sighted. You might as well make the entire game offline at that point, because why bother playing a game online where player interaction is not necessary. You don't even share a game world anyway, so why bother?

It would be simpler to have a conversation about that if you just stopped gaslighting and being dishonest. Not a very good look for you.

That sharp reader will also notice that you have no reading comprehension because my question clearly addressed the similarities on the core gameplay loops, NOT the philosophical differences in their economies. Hence why i called it a pseudo argument. Could have called it a strawman as well since you are literally arguing a point i didn't make.

Alternative interpretation, you knew from the beginning that your reply missed the point and did it on purpose shifting the conversation from a question regarding core gameplay towards low end crafting, even trying to move it away from currency towards essences knowing how flawed your whole argument is especially when it comes to chaos who wouldn't be worth anything if it wasn't for crafting bench/map device who could be powered with gold just as well.

This is ridiculous.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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kolpo wrote:

Slowly collecting gold until you have the 30 million or 50 billion required for an upgrade is horrible gameplay.

How is that any different that farming up dozens or hundreds of divines for an upgrade here in POE?

Anyone of sound mind following the conversation can see what is asked here.

It's a moot point anyway as what you suggest most definitely won't ever happen. They have stated time and time again that it is important to them that players interact with one another so trade being the standard is not going to change

No an auction house would ruin this game.
I would however be willing to forego an expansion or two for serious engine improvements such as fixing the shader compilation/caching or for bringing other skills up to par with the meta skill builds.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

a pseudo argument

I wouldn't go that far.

I would assume that the whole "crafting mats are currency" decision was made to create a natural currency sink. And while you are right that 'the majority' treats it strictly as currency, the amount of currency that is being used/abused/misused to create the items you save up to buy, does in fact serve a purpose.

We all know there are improvements to be made to PoE's trading system. But it has been pretty clear that GGG wants an open, free market run by the players. I would even go so far as to say that they want an economy gated behind knowledge, where it's possible to speculate and take advantage of that knowledge. The more automated this system becomes, and the more direct restrictions on how to price, sell and buy items they set, the less this is the case. We can of course agree or disagree here, but it is what it is.

And we can say whatever we want about the trading system itself, but the economy? I've always found it interesting and VERY "alive" compared to games driven by an automated system.

Me.

Absolutely, I would buy largest available supporter pack if that would happen.

End the "friction" and replace it with usability. Thanks.

I would be happy with a "can trade without having to jump back to stash", too. But I guess the "friction is good, comfort is bad" mentality precludes this as well.

No way on the AH, but why not simply allow people to enter your hideout, only when you are online, and buy directly from there. What is the problem with that, exactly? If you are AFK, then this does not work. Have to be either playing or actively doing something. I am totally open to honest opinions on why this is a bad idea, but I just don't see why.

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Alkon20 wrote:

No way on the AH, but why not simply allow people to enter your hideout, only when you are online, and buy directly from there. What is the problem with that, exactly? If you are AFK, then this does not work. Have to be either playing or actively doing something. I am totally open to honest opinions on why this is a bad idea, but I just don't see why.

My assumption is "We dont have the technology yet" or "we dont have time for that".

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kolpo wrote:

Diablo 3 was horrible when it had an AH I only enjoyed it after they removed AH. AH has negative impact on game in nearly every aspect.

Slowly collecting gold until you have the 30 million or 50 billion required for an upgrade is horrible gameplay.

I played d3 for 1600 hours after they removed AH, but AH era was horrible.

This game is all about killing monsters and items. We got a ton of items and then what? Sell them for 1 chaos each or spend 16 hours a day online waiting for traders to earn something more for those items?
I'd rather just vender all my items than waste my time waiting to sell to other players.
Right now I got like 20 div of items in my stash that I could sell but I don't want to be online 24/7 just to get a few divines.

Anything that isn't for my character is useless and I won't be able to do anything with it unless I undercut the price in the trade by a lot. Even then it might take hours for the item to sell. Not to mention I hate having to stop a map I'm running to invite somebody, port to my hideout and trade.

POE2 fixed a big annoyance by taking the gems out of gear. But this trade thing is still a mess.

Any kind of offline trading system is welcome. Put an NPC that is limited to selling 10, 20 items at a time for a player. Make it $20. I'll be glad to buy it. Anything so I don't have to be online, wait and make a trade for every item I want to sell.

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zveer wrote:

Right now I got like 20 div of items in my stash that I could sell but I don't want to be online 24/7 just to get a few divines.

You know why you still didnt sell them? Because they are not worth 20 div.