Boss fights in POE or: Alkaizerx says Uber Lilith is better than any POE Pinnacle Boss

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crunkatog wrote:

You can't please everyone but there's one thing that will piss off everyone, and that is deciding that the ONLY criteria for success should be manual agility, OR having such deep pockets that you can build a herald stacker that afk in die beams, OR having such high MS or burst DPS that you clip through locked areas or insta phase bosses out of sequence to skip parts of the fight. No one thing should be sufficient OR necessary to pass GO.

Balancing this in the context of PoE is complicated.

Those are some good points. Which is more or less why I said nearly all of Lilith difficulty is dodging her attacks which seem very random. Some things you can guess for but others are totally RNG. To top that off with Blizzard does not give you full control of where your character stands as PoE does. Only counsel players get that kind of freedom as they get to use a WASD type of movement while PC players have to use mouse. I have felt so far that All of Diablo's fights have been gear checks or dps checks, they have mostly been exercises in patience more than anything, they take forever and they are so very bad. The first dungeons that even come close to bosses we fight in the campaign I would say are the Capstone fights. D4 fights are made to annoy you with tedious low damage mechanics and piss you off.

One of the very common ways D4 has been described by the payers as been "Made to annoy and frustrate you".

It's like giving you a super Nintendo controller and telling you to play the game verses todays Tec which can be very precise. When I first stared to play D4 I was getting so angry because I would click on the ground and my guy would just start attacking the mob, Well I wanted him to run around to the back of the mob and instead he's standing there swinging locked in an animation. The hit boxes were huge and the pathing is utra bad. Just look at how bad the horses are, its the same way for the player.

What do these guys want animation locks, predictive movement, and Attack while moving to perma locked on? There are so many QoL that makes PoE better and allows you to play the game they way you intended your character to move.

As I said before, D4 is like an App, while PoE is like an Operating System in how robust and full of options it is. There is no competition on which feels like the F2P game. If I handed someone both games D4 plays like the F2P game while PoE plays like the $70 game. I mean if people think making a fight artificially difficult is skill then I will just have to say I heavily disagree.

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Valkaneer wrote:

One of the very common ways D4 has been described by the payers as been "Made to annoy and frustrate you".

I think it's worth keeping in mind just how bad D3 was on release. If you think D4 has frustrating mechanics right now you would not believe how bad enrage timers were for bosses/elites in D3 at launch. I vividly recall some proper "nerd rage" moments with early D3. Like throwing keyboard across the room type moments. Other arpgs have made me rage but nothing like early D3. Honestly D4 is a lot more stable/palatable than D3 on release. It's just that that is a very low and disappointing bar for the franchise 10+ years on.

e: to stay on topic it sounds like some of the hit boxes of various attacks in the UL fight are broken atm. Namely the spike wave things.

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Coconutdoggy wrote:

The guy is considered one of the best players in the fucking world and literally has done every uber in the entire game in multiple gauntlet in HC but I don't want wow bosses dude get that out outa here if I wanted an mmo boss I'll play an mmo POE bosses are fine and simple.

When it comes to mechanics as I said POE beats it in my opinion the reason why Alk considers it the best is because you can't exactly outgear that boss at the current moment it takes a lot of ''skill'' to do that boss even though I bully D4 including the players that boss is very ''skilled'' base compared to POE I'll agree. You can cheese exploit it but people will bully you for doing that so nobody cares for those type of kills.


It is a better boss in terms of raw mechanics skill but that's the only boss that's remotely comparable and there's no incentive to do it; It's just there.

You can definitely outgear it. Necros can one shot both phases. Other classes can kill it in seconds with good gear.

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ladish wrote:

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Valkaneer wrote:

One of the very common ways D4 has been described by the payers as been "Made to annoy and frustrate you".

I think it's worth keeping in mind just how bad D3 was on release. If you think D4 has frustrating mechanics right now you would not believe how bad enrage timers were for bosses/elites in D3 at launch. I vividly recall some proper "nerd rage" moments with early D3. Like throwing keyboard across the room type moments. Other arpgs have made me rage but nothing like early D3. Honestly D4 is a lot more stable/palatable than D3 on release. It's just that that is a very low and disappointing bar for the franchise 10+ years on.

e: to stay on topic it sounds like some of the hit boxes of various attacks in the UL fight are broken atm. Namely the spike wave things.

I played D3 on release and it's nothing close to the frustration you get with D4.

Krip, Ziz, ETC were talking about how bad the CC was, but I thought that was just NM dungeons. When I did my first capstone on my druid my goodness The super elites stun you, and summon mobs that blind you and teleport, while every other mob but the tanky knight with the shield who will snare you runs away if you try and kill them. Every damn one of them CC's and if you to try and kill the damn CC mobs they will teleport away or run from you while the other ranged mobs CC you.

When I got to W4 and did my first helltide, that really showed me how bad CC was. Literally every freaking mob CCs you, and all ranged mobs will run from you while the other ranged mobs snare and stun you. The game has no ailment reduction nodes or affixes on gear or paragon board basically. Then you got the goat men with their spear chuckers, well those CC, and then you kill them they drop a large puddle of CC on you. I ran into this pack, there was probably 15-20 of them, It had about 5 spirt casters, 5 spirit archers, 2-3 succubus's, and at least 2 bone archers. Every damn one of them CC and all but the bone archers run/teleport away from you and scatter if you try and kill them.

That is what I mean by "Made to annoy and frustrate you".

Lets also not forget the events they have for you to do, giant Black swirling tornados that has 6 stations placed around it where you have to click and a bar fills. They are all guarded by monsters that CC, when you kill them and click the station it shoots into the tornado which spawns monsters that rush out and stops you from completing filling the bar. Some of these monsters will throw a chain at you an jank you into the tornado which then your entire screen is covered it the tornado making you unable to see any thing, and you can't cast anything or use any skills in the tornado either. Then at the 9, 12, and 3 position outside the tornado either it totally partially covers your view so you can't see what mobs are attacking you, even though your not in the tornado. The whole damn thing is nothing but a bend you over to piss you off.

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Poiuytr133 wrote:

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Coconutdoggy wrote:

The guy is considered one of the best players in the fucking world and literally has done every uber in the entire game in multiple gauntlet in HC but I don't want wow bosses dude get that out outa here if I wanted an mmo boss I'll play an mmo POE bosses are fine and simple.

When it comes to mechanics as I said POE beats it in my opinion the reason why Alk considers it the best is because you can't exactly outgear that boss at the current moment it takes a lot of ''skill'' to do that boss even though I bully D4 including the players that boss is very ''skilled'' base compared to POE I'll agree. You can cheese exploit it but people will bully you for doing that so nobody cares for those type of kills.


It is a better boss in terms of raw mechanics skill but that's the only boss that's remotely comparable and there's no incentive to do it; It's just there.

You can definitely outgear it. Necros can one shot both phases. Other classes can kill it in seconds with good gear.

That's getting gutted everyone knows that
In terms of seconds those are exploits aka 500 trillion berserker druid smasher which I've done and I want you all to understand blizzard doesn't like people doing that they usually patch it during the week or disable the items it's fucking funny.

Poison Shred druid which deals 2 trillion per second

Rupture barb which got nerfed a week ago lol

You wanna look it at actual ''normal builds'' as I said not this garbage exploit shit hell even most of the necros know bonespear is bugged that's the best part.

You can't outgear that fight it's skill base check but know this there's LITERALLY zero inventive to do Uber lilith none ZERO.

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Pashid wrote:

But quite funny how people start to compare years old content with something in a new game lol.

Funny how? What else are you going to compare it with? Itself? Old irrelevant games that no one cares about?

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ladish wrote:

I think it's worth keeping in mind just how bad D3 was on release.

It's not though. It's a lazy excuse by white knights. It's the ol' Johnny Cochran "look over here, dont look at the evidence"

Blizz had, what, 8 years of D4 dev time and virtually unlimited funds and they learned zilch from D3's release. People need to stop using that tired, lazy defense.

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trixxar wrote:

Like, quality did go down, right?

Yes.

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trixxar wrote:

No opinion on D4, but Im wondering why we went from Shaper and Uber Elder to Sirus, memory game, Exarch, and Eater.

Like, quality did go down, right?

Shaper was exhilarating. Uber Elder is maybe my favorite fight in video games.. maybe tied with Fume Knight and Gael, and.. ok a lot But still top tier experience.

This is not a PoE bash, but does anyone feel the same about Eater, Exarch, Maven as they did back in the Shaper/Elder days?

What happened?

I agree, especially Maven's memory game and Sirus' "Black on almost black on so Dark red it might as well be black" trash signaling.

As for what happened: people working in a company often feel they need to out do the last things they did. That explains why Sirus is just a shit show of "one upmanship" style design. and Why Maven needs "you thought two bosses was hard in Uber Elder? Behold 10 fucking bosses and an electronic memory game from 1980!!!!

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superbomb1967 wrote:

Funny how? What else are you going to compare it with? Itself? Old irrelevant games that no one cares about?

With up 2 date content which is not out of date or heavily trivialized with power creep and gear since many years? lol

release sirus was much better than uber lilith in many ways, not only in skill and gear requirement.

But I mean sure nowadays everything is better as long as it has obvious big indicators cause that was people love since they get all sweaty with them.
Been the same story across many game genres. Even in mmorpgs people loved to have close to no obvious marked indicators at all but nowadays people just droll all over it and want the game to pretty much play itself.