POE 2 speed slowed down. Yay or Nay ?

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

We can boil it down to a simple question: Do you want to fight heaps of monsters?

Yes. That is what I'm here for, building freedom and complexity aside.

I agree that it's boring when every build essentially does the same thing, i.e. nearly every "Strike" build going for AoE splash damage and explosions to pop every pack instantly; that's not any different from other skills that can inherently do that. That, I concur, is a balancing act that needs addressing, but when I'm pooping out >150 spells per second, then I expect this type of gameplay and not tactical dodging and carefully reading every enemy move. And if they decide to kill that for good, then I'll also be out for good and simply go play something else. I stopped playing Grim Dawn for this very reason, more or less.

That gif is exactly and precisely what the fans/champions of PoE2 absolutely freaking hate. It is the literal worst. I've played the game for ten years, and while I've never broken into Streamer Memer 100T DPS Mavens-per-microsecond nonsense, I still know the game quite well. I have no idea what is happening in that screenshot beyond "somebody is committing a Jousis-style crusade against the servers with trigger effects". You cannot see where the PC is in that morass of particle effects, you cannot see where the bosses are, you cannot see the map - you cannot see jack monkey squat except an epileptic nightmare explosion of malevolent insanity.

Other games can have huge amounts of effects and projectiles onscreen without being utterly, completely, and irreversibly unreadable the way that gif is. Look at Touhou - an average danmaku attack has hundreds of bullets onscreen in all manner of elaborate patterns, and yet you're never unable to read the battle. You can lose track, sure - the skill in Touhou and other bullet-hell games is being able to keep your cool and read the flow of enemy attack patterns - but you're never physically unable to read the fight.

That gif? Skynet couldn't read that fight. The Matrix couldn't parse what's happening in that madness. That sort of absolute chaos is utterly, utterly repellant to any sort of new player, as well as any player who wants to feel like they're controlling a character instead of just throwing a nuclear glitter bomb at the screen.

To answer Phrazz's questions, I do want to fight hordes of monsters. More accurately, I want to fight hordes of monsters. Engage in battle and defeat them with ability and tactics as well as gear, rather than simply clicking once to explode entire instances. I really don't think gear is somehow going to "not matter" in PoE2 the way some people are saying. we've all seen the streamers who get dogshit luck with their drops struggling while the guy who finds a rare weapon with +70% damage flies through content like he's got rocket skates. Gear will enhance and enable tactics, gear will cover for recklessness or weaknesses in tactics, and gear will determine the ceiling of what you can handle, same as it always has. Excellent tactics and battle skill can only go so far.

This is Path of Exile - builds that can facetank everything and not care about dodges or active block or anything else are inevitable. If you're determined to build a PoE1-style one-button facetank smashclicker and you have a couple hundred Mirrors lying around because of market botting, you'll be fine. The thing Grinding Gear is doing is putting those tools in the game for the people who want to use them, so people who can't scale to the ludicrous and utterly unachievable zenith required of a PoE1 build can partially compensate by being better players. By, to borrow a phrase from the hated game series everyone is ripping on here, gitting gud. They'll never be AS good as the five-hundred-Mirror builds, but maybe they can get, I'unno...twenty percent closer?

And they can enjoy the game more while they do it because they are fighting the demon hordes of Wraeclast, not just Cookie Clicking their way through them. At least to start. Five years of power creep in, we all know we'll be right back where we started. So just wait for it, I guess.

Could be a 'me' problem. Could also be that Grinding Gear has years of evidence that new player entry/retention in this game is terrible compared to similar genres, in part because you show someone that and say "this is what any given normal build looks like, if you're not doing this you're a failure at the game" and a lot of people simply shrug and write the game off. Evidence seems to suggest GGG considers the issue more widespread than one cranky middle-aged woman on the forums.

There's maybe a couple thousand people on the planet - in total - who can look at that gif and know what's happening. And a nontrivial percentage of people who can look at that gif and know what's happening are going to say "I know what's happening there and I hate it". You can't sell an entire new headline game that took over seven years to build to a sub-100 percentage of a couple thousand people. PoE1 can continue to be made for the exclusive enjoyment of those couple thousand people while telling everyone else to get bent. PoE2 has its sights set a little higher.

Baumis. Friend.

I am the middle-aged cranky woman I was referring to. Not you.

Your suggestion is that my issues with the first game are unique to me and the entire world absolutely loves the nightmarish insanity your gif demonstrates. You are asserting that I am the only one who feels the way I do - that I am one cranky middle-aged woman amongst a sea of people who unabashedly and without reservation love everything PoE1 is.

This statement - that I am the only one with the "me" problem - contradicts over a year of statements from Grinding Gear since the newest version of PoE2 began being revealed. A near-constant from Jonathan and Mark is that they consider PoE1, at a high level unacceptable opaque and unreadable - there's too much going on on the screen, there's no real way to meaningfully interact with the map or with enemy creatures/mechanics. You just hold down your Spew Endless BS button and hope your ludicrous level of overgearing carries you through by rendering the content around you utterly meaningless.

This is the game Path of Exile 1 is, now. Nothing will change that. Too fast, too bloated, too powercrept, too much. Simply too much. The developers do not, however, want it to be the game Path of Exile 2 will be.

I don't believe I'm trying to ruin anything for others. I have not contested in a long time that Path 1 is what it is now and that it will never change. It is not the game it once was, and it will never be again. It isn't a game for anyone who likes to engage with their game anymore, and there's not really any fixing that.

You are free to enjoy what you enjoy, but every post you make is drenched with the idea that the only 'proper' way to enjoy an ARPG is, essentially, your demonstrated gif - absolute and utter chaos. You claim it to be the expression of godlike power, and the reason to play the game. That build isn't 'godlike power' to me - it's nonsense in a vaguely humanoid wrapper. There is absolutely nothing 'godlike' or 'powerful' about spamming over ten thousand weak spell procs a second, at least in terms of intuitive feel. At least, not to me or anyone else who feels similarly. That sort of thing is simply immersion-breaking jankery that makes the entire game feel cheap and artificial.

We can go back and forth over which of us is 'right' to feel whichever way we feel, but the bare fact of the matter is that you have the game you need to generate over ten thousand spell procs a second already - Path of Exile 1. I've said it a thousand times, and I get the distinct feeling I'm gonna have to say it a thousand more - what is the point in making an exact, one-for-one clone of Path of Exile 1 with absolutely no differences whatsoever between the two games save for a vaguely updated cosmetic coat of paint?

Everybody said Dark Souls was a bad terrible game nobody liked with a niche audience of tryhard losers...until Elden Ring. Who's to say that GGG's approach to PoE2 can't turn into Elden Ring but for ARPGs? Who's to say they won't stumble across a new Golden Formula no one expected to be there by taking a chance?

They're absolutely guaranteed not to, though, if they made PoE2 nothing but a palette-swapped carbon copy of PoE1 for the same ~1200 or so Streamer Memer players who can generate a hundred Mirrors a day through illogical, counterintuitive and vaguely unethical market chicanery and use it to scale to a point where the entire game simply ceases to matter. they made that game, and they've seen how the market treats it. it does well enough, but it'll never be a Big Booming Success.

Why repeat themselves to no point or purpose?

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1453R wrote:

what is the point in making an exact, one-for-one clone of Path of Exile 1 with absolutely no differences whatsoever between the two games save for a vaguely updated cosmetic coat of paint?

I don't think anyone is asking for a copy-paste kind of game.

But sequels often build upon what made the original game great. And while we may disagree on what makes PoE 1 great, or even if it's great at all, fast paced gameplay has been an integral part of PoE for almost a decade now. For A LOT of people, fast paced gameplay is a synonym for PoE and indeed one of the mechanics that makes PoE 1 great (IMO), not to mention one of the mechanics that actually makes PoE stand out from the crowd, where you have TONS of alternatives that are slower and more... "Tactical".

Don't get me wrong here, everyone understands why they'll make things different this time around, even Baumis does. But in a world of FIFA, Call of Duty, Assassins Creed or whatever, where developers sell MILLIONS of copies with the "same game with a new story and a fresh coat of paint" because players want it, it's a little bit ignorant to just sweep the idea under the rug as something meaningless.

I certainly can't blame players for being "afraid" that PoE 2 will lose something in the process - something the really benefited in making PoE 1 great. And GGG being deliberately vague with info/showcases regarding PoE 2 endgame and what kind of improvements we can expect for PoE 1 going forward don't really help... At all...

Gameplay for socreress shows that PoE2 can be fast.

I think it is just a matter of time when ppl will figure out how to speed up things.

i dont mind if the game moves towards going fast but i would prefer if thing never went more than 10 actions per second.

a huge issue i see with poe1 is speed is a huge multiplier that affects more or less everything.

based on what i m seeing with the passive tree in poe2, the speed modifiers have way smaller numbers compared to poe1.

i actually wouldnt mind if there are hard caps too. GD has hard caps, achieving 3 attack/second is the hard cap.

in fact i would say caps help devs balance the game better.

Whatever is going on in that gif is a cancer. I like fast but I also like visible and distinguishable and that shit is anything but. Nausea inducing...

I find it difficult to believe that its not a case of "I outgeared the encounter enough to not care what is going on". The character is standing in shaper beam...

how do you recoup a dot?