Game Balance in Path of Exile: Ultimatum

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SisterBlister wrote:

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Gackuto wrote:

This is so hilarious.

The funniest aspect of this manifesto (which I mostly agree with, btw) is that all the trigger happy mods are doing overtime keeping this thread positive. So now you can probably finally voice your real opinion in the other subforums ;)

GGG have been fully embracing the censorship tactics of their Overlords more and more.

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IcedInferno007 wrote:

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SisterBlister wrote:

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Gackuto wrote:

This is so hilarious.

The funniest aspect of this manifesto (which I mostly agree with, btw) is that all the trigger happy mods are doing overtime keeping this thread positive. So now you can probably finally voice your real opinion in the other subforums ;)

GGG have been fully embracing the censorship tactics of their Overlords more and more.

Good news is that if you buy enough supporter packs, suddenly the mods never seem to notice you.

Enuff already!

I am far from a casual player, nor am I in the top 1%, I generally hit 36 challenges every league and have thousands of hours logged, I do not force myself to run the most efficent farming methods as I actually want to PLAY the game with a fun build and have fun while doing so. However here is the problem. This forced meta change and rewriting of the mechanics every single league just for the sake of changing from one op meta skill to another is annoying at best. Just when crafting actually started to make sense instead of just buying the items from trade I once again have NO idea how it works again. Having to wait to find out if its worth it to try and craft something versus just buying it takes a lot of the fun out of the game. It also takes the fun out when withouth playing broken builds content just isn't doable. Maven fight last league was a perfect example, I was playing a cold vortex build that cleared great did bosses well but at only 4 mill or so dps I didn't do enough damage to maven fast enough not for it to be a complete shit show and have to do the memory game soo many times each encounter that I failed probably 1/2 of them. Now I couldve changed to a different toon and just insta phased her but how is that fun?

Here is another point, I have spent quite a bit of money on supporting this game and I don't regret it as I have already said I have played for thousands of hours. What does piss me off though is how many stash tabs I have bought and yet stuff still doesn't fit in them! Why did I buy a tab for fragments when they don't all go in there? Why didn't I just use one of the quad tabs or any of the other dozens of tabs? Why doesn't all the currency fit on the currency tab?

Why do you insist on punishing your playerbase by creating artificial speed bumps to try and prolong how long it takes them to do something? Have you ever considered that player retention is not helped but rather harmed by that? This past league is the first time since open beta that I have been playing that I didn't play a league from start to finish, and it looks like I will be moving more towards that being the norm.

PS I will still be playing POE and I am sure I will enjoy quite a bit of it still however I seriously doubt that I will purchase another point/supporterpack again, And I am sure that there are quite a few others such as myself who enjoy the game have the disposable income to drop on it, don't need/want anymore mtxs but would do it to support the development of the game but won't because of issues such as those I listed.

You can only beat a dog so many times before it bites back.

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Incarcerated wrote:

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Anayoridango wrote:

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Incarcerated wrote:

Actually, no.
If GGG always buffs and never nerfs, we end up in a situation where they need to buff boss/mob health again. Nerfs are how we keep the game numbers balanced and the game has NEVER been as balanced as it is now so quit your whining and appreciate the delicate dance they are performing for us.

I agree on some aspects you said. But when I'm talking about nerfs, I'm talking more about the nature of things they nerf. In my opinion, they decided to nerf or annihilate whams of content that retains a good proportion of their player base. For example, deep delving will be really less entertaining for a lot of player for no good reason ; 100% deli maps will become really expensive to run and far from the profit we had this league.

And for me, this will result in frustration because I won't see any interest in "grinding" endgame as there is no more endgame decently reachable (saying this whereas I did 36 challenges and farm this league). The endgame should still be here but only for the 0.1% that, whatever happens in the game, will play and go to the endgame. So I really don't see the point of taking back the fun of maybe 90% of the players and letting be the top 5% of the hardcore players (I don't take in account the 5% of ultra casu players), while saying the exact opposite...

It is in that matters that I think these types of nerfs are really really bad and not understandable.
But on the other hand, I always welcome stats nerfs (items, skills, ascendency...), as they have to be balanced when new content comes in, in order to have the maximum of builds playable.

Ok some quick points here:
Deep delving changes affects people at around 500+ delve level the most. 99.9% of players do not get this far in delve so don't try to make this an issue.
Delirium will still be as accessible as it was before. The cost has not changed, the rewards have simply been lowered. They were also too profitable by far and WILL REMAIN VERY PROFITABLE. Again, this is a non-issue.

The fun for 90% of players is not affected by any of these changes aside from accessibility to overpowered items. If you need overpowered items to play, you're either playing a bad build and need to optimise or you're not good at playing the game.
I can't stress this enough. The nerfs are needed. A diverse meta creates more opportunities for all players and makes build enabling items more accessible.

Or maybe overpowered items enabled weak, but fun builds to get to end game? This and harvest hits, are a hit to diversity.

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Yollo3 wrote:

Every one who says that 100% deli maps were broken is so fucking stupid, honestly. U coud make 20-25ex/hour by doing harvest if your build isn't slow as turtle. Also u coud do lab for like 30-45ex/hour, u coud do ALT spamming watchstones even this is better than 100% deli map. and u also need good build to run Deli maps. So nerfing the most fun contect in the game is just stupid. Ppl will still run those maps, but u need to buy 5 orbs from trade, which is just pain in the ass. just imagine to whisper 30+ ppl to buy 5 orbs to run 1 map lmao. Also wanna ask why didn't u just delete fracture fossile? It's useless trash now, idk why it's still remain in the game after changes u done lol

The issue isn't profitability as such. Delirium maps are CREATING currency and items, whereas other methods are skill gated or consume currency. Creating that much wealth is by far the greatest issue here and injects so much currency into the economy each league that other methods for obtaining these types of items pale by comparison.
It's not HOW MUCH, it's WHAT you're getting that is the problem.

Some of these changes.. They just leave me a little speechless. Well, I came, I played, I had a truly great time these last few years of the game when it comes to League content. Diversity and giving players the ability to play the way they wanted to was/is in my opinion the best part of the game. I think it's time I skip out on a league or who knows, maybe dabble in a little Standard.

Best of luck to everyone starting the new league!

It is one thing to “shake the meta” and “nerf overpowered and overperforming builds”


It’s a whole different pair of shoes to nerf end game and specific game economy aspects. I honestly hope that it will not backfire the way it seems to be about to backfire. I hope that “ultimatum” will not quite literally be an ultimatum for a lot of players who are forced to make a choice between playing how they like vs how GGG wants them to play. There is a limit to one’s patients when it comes to repetitive saying “you are having fun wrong way, we want you to do x”.

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KIN9KON9 wrote:

Okay, we play now? we go zoom zoom through campaign now? We get to mapping then read these again now, yes? lol

ehhhmm....what?!

better stick to your own language :D

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IcedInferno007 wrote:

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Incarcerated wrote:

Ok some quick points here:
Deep delving changes affects people at around 500+ delve level the most. 99.9% of players do not get this far in delve so don't try to make this an issue.
Delirium will still be as accessible as it was before. The cost has not changed, the rewards have simply been lowered. They were also too profitable by far and WILL REMAIN VERY PROFITABLE. Again, this is a non-issue.

The fun for 90% of players is not affected by any of these changes aside from accessibility to overpowered items. If you need overpowered items to play, you're either playing a bad build and need to optimise or you're not good at playing the game.
I can't stress this enough. The nerfs are needed. A diverse meta creates more opportunities for all players and makes build enabling items more accessible.

Or maybe overpowered items enabled weak, but fun builds to get to end game? This and harvest hits, are a hit to diversity.

Nope. I have made viable builds with every skill I have wanted to play in every league since around bestiary. Creativity and experimentation is required. OP items aren't. My benchmark was to always design my builds without including influenced items and then add them to the build later when it is in the final optimisation stages.
OP gear makes you lazy.

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Incarcerated wrote:

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Ruspi wrote:

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Incarcerated wrote:

Actually, no.
If GGG always buffs and never nerfs, we end up in a situation where they need to buff boss/mob health again. Nerfs are how we keep the game numbers balanced and the game has NEVER been as balanced as it is now so quit your whining and appreciate the delicate dance they are
performing for us.

You're wrong, every time they nerf (and ruins mechanic) of many "popular builds" that to make them powerful you have to spend a lot of exalted ... what's the point of this ?? no sense

You're so close.
Ok so, most of the time the 'popular builds' are those that are cheap but effective to run. So if they're nerfing these builds to where it's expensive to be powerful, they're doing their job. The ideal situation is if builds are viable but have a long build to endgame, extending the playtime in the league.
If you're worried because you don't have the time and want to experience all of the game despite this fact, you're playing the wrong game.

You're the only sane person here. This is the exact answer. Anyone crying in this thread about a popular build getting nerfed, is only crying because now they can't beat the game with minimum effort. I know. I played carrion golems two leagues ago. And many leagues before that, if my build failed, I just played Cyclone because you just breeze through. Both of those, I took down Sirus A8 with my eyes closed and about 25ex. Why, for the last 10 leagues, do these two skills capture 11-30% of all players? Because traditionally, it's been EXTREMELY easy to "win" at whatever you're doing if you're using them. This shouldn't be the case. It should be HARD to kill Endgame bosses. People just default to BV or CG or Cyclone because it's the path of elast resistance because they're so powerful. This is the right choice for the overall health of the game.