Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

Why everyone think that harvest is just something that does not evolve RNG?

Do we have guaranteed t1-t2 mod rolls? Do we have guaranteed mod annul if there are more than one mod with the same tag?

There are LAYERS of RNG with harvest crafting.
For the whole league playing about 3-4 hours a day (actually mostly 3) I NEVER found most of the high end crafts (reroll speed/influence, all 4 tiers HIGH value seeds).

Isn't that an RNG? If not - well I do not have more to say.

About the exalt slam - make it more common (like alterations at minimum) and so that it can not roll tiers lower than 4 - only in this case there will be ANY reason to use it for slamming.
Otherwise - not in any world.

The whole mods pool is just ridiculous, with so much useless mods like stun recovery, life regen, attribute requirements - why do we have those in mods pool at all?
Are there any build that may have it useful? Are we stuck in like 10 years ago when there were any use of those?

"

hidden_gobsek wrote:

Why everyone think that harvest is just something that does not evolve RNG?

Do we have guaranteed t1-t2 mod rolls? Do we have guaranteed mod annul if there are more than one mod with the same tag?

There are LAYERS of RNG with harvest crafting.
For the whole league playing about 3-4 hours a day (actually mostly 3) I NEVER found most of the high end crafts (reroll speed/influence, all 4 tiers HIGH value seeds).

Isn't that an RNG? If not - well I do not have more to say.

About the exalt slam - make it more common (like alterations at minimum) and so that it can not roll tiers lower than 4 - only in this case there will be ANY reason to use it for slamming.
Otherwise - not in any world.

The whole mods pool is just ridiculous, with so much useless mods like stun recovery, life regen, attribute requirements - why do we have those in mods pool at all?
Are there any build that may have it useful? Are we stuck in like 10 years ago when there were any use of those?

For instance, what if your aim is a ring with % Cold DMG and Double Flat Cold? When using Rem/Add Cold, it could brick one of your other higher rolls, or you could roll resists instead, etc... There's not many safe rolls on a ring like that. It could take exponentially more rolls to finish that ring than, say, a ring with +life, +lightning dmg, +evasion, +chaos res, +cold res, +fire res. One is easy-ish to get to t3+ rolls, one involves significantly more lucky RNG.

"

Kasepats wrote:

Maybe make influence mods drop only, not craftable/removable and voilà- no Harvest change needed. Problem is not (Harvest) crafting, problem is influence mods (especially after 3.9 release).

This... kinda.
Harvest should not allow targetable influence crafting. DON'T remove the tags and add tags to those influence mods that had them removed but prevent harvest from rolling influence mods with augment and remove/add crafts.
This fixes the issues GGG has with the system. Fossils would be required for initially targeting one or multiple influence mods on an item including for the purpose of maven orb crafting. Exalts would be required for attempting to 'fix' maven orbs removing one of the desirable influence mods on an item in high end crafting.
The more 'basic' mod pool should be targetable with harvest crafting while retaining the risk of targeting influence mods with annuls or remove/add crafts. This gives a greater layer of difficulty when crafting top tier items but allows players to craft their basic non-influence stats to make their build function on a basic level.


Maven orb has a function? Check
High end items are more difficult to craft? Check
Basic leveling and early endgame items can be crafted? Check
Harvest remains relevant and powerful? Check
Exalts have a function? Check
Fossils have a function? Check
Fun? Check


Oh and of course:
REMOVE SPLIT BEASTS!

"

Harvest should not allow targetable influence crafting. DON'T remove the tags and add tags to those influence mods that had them removed but prevent harvest from rolling influence mods with augment and remove/add crafts.
This fixes the issues GGG has with the system. Fossils would be required for initially targeting one or multiple influence mods on an item including for the purpose of maven orb crafting. Exalts would be required for attempting to 'fix' maven orbs removing one of the desirable influence mods on an item in high end crafting.
The more 'basic' mod pool should be targetable with harvest crafting while retaining the risk of targeting influence mods with annuls or remove/add crafts. This gives a greater layer of difficulty when crafting top tier items but allows players to craft their basic non-influence stats to make their build function on a basic level.


Maven orb has a function? Check
High end items are more difficult to craft? Check
Basic leveling and early endgame items can be crafted? Check
Harvest remains relevant and powerful? Check
Exalts have a function? Check
Fossils have a function? Check
Fun? Check


Oh and of course:
REMOVE SPLIT BEASTS!

The only thing that isn't accurate about your post is "High end items are more difficult to craft".

What most people, including GGG don't seem to understand is: even with Harvest crafting, high end items WERE extremely difficult to craft. Harvest just made them a bit more reasonable down from downright impossible. I encourage everyone INCLUDING GGG to watch Pathofmaths video on the statistics of making items before and after. Sadly, GGG is so disconnected from their player base, they probably don't even know who he his.

GGG you guys pays too much attention to the high-end players. But you should know, no matter how hard the game is, those people can always find a way to achieve. But in all, how many people are them? 5%? 3%? or less then 1%? How about those common players such as me, those people who don't have much time to spend on game all day long?
We do love RNG but we also want to have some perfect equip at the very end to show off. We do love the random surprise, but we also want to be able to finish the end-game content.
In the current league, I can achieve these, and I'm still happily struggle on perfecting my gears. And I think this is the best league I ever had. But in the future? I can hardly see the flicker of hope.
I do agree that harvest is far too strong too make other crafting measures pointless. But this is not the reason you nerf harvest. You need to buff other crafting method to make the game easier. If you invest into the values you will know, whats the percentage of people who actually defeated maven? and the percentage of finishing 36 challenges? Even with such a "powerful" crafting method?
We are playing game, not the game playing us. The RNG is too hard to enjoy now. Please think of it.

PS: Disappointed you still didn't make the harvest tradable. So discord is still a must to play POE. And this is not the only one. You'd better also have Awakened trade, POB, Exilence Next and with POE Wiki, Poedb, POE ninja open on the browser. Without these? you probably are a loser in the game.
In one word, POE now is too hard to play, especially for the new comers. Why can't you guys make the game more easier and enjoyable?

"

Mark__75 wrote:

"

AltairLT wrote:

First time since 1.0 launch I felt comfortable crafting items, because I had some kind of control over it and now... Might as well get back to chaos spam.

Chris prefers when you like gambling and he believes this is good for you. Something called "crafting", where you spend a currency and cannot foresee any predictable result is nothing more than a gambling.
Wiki:
"Gambling (...) is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements to be present: consideration (an amount wagered), risk (chance), and a prize."
- Does not this fit perfectly to a "crafting" proposed by GGG?
The definition above sounds entirely different to the CRAFTING idea, where you take some actions to create something specific you want in a planned way, where you need knowledge, skills and suitable ingredients.

Slamming exalts and annulments is a kind of lottery - you throw the game currency in and then you can win, but in most cases you wont. I don't enjoy it. Most of people don't.

And the problem with this is that the odds are weighted severely in favor of you failing. Often with catastrophic results for your project.

Think of a 6 property item that has 1 useless mod. If you annul it, you have an 83% chance of removing a mod that you wanted to keep and only a 17% chance of being successful. Even if you are successful, you still need to further "craft" the item and will likely fail again when trying to add another property. Rinse and repeat until success or you brick the item. This carries over to all aspects of the current non-Harvest, so called, crafting.

Being substantially more likely to fail than succeed is not fun or exciting.

Should you eventually succeed, the feeling is not excitement, or that you just had fun... it is only relief that it is over for the moment.

Havest crafting is still extremely RNG dependant. RNG to find it. RNG to get the craft you want. RNG to to get the property and tier you want. RNG to get the roll value you want. But at least it feels like it can be resasonably accomplished, not, whelp lets try and probably brick my item.

"

Anointedone wrote:

"

Harvest should not allow targetable influence crafting. DON'T remove the tags and add tags to those influence mods that had them removed but prevent harvest from rolling influence mods with augment and remove/add crafts.
This fixes the issues GGG has with the system. Fossils would be required for initially targeting one or multiple influence mods on an item including for the purpose of maven orb crafting. Exalts would be required for attempting to 'fix' maven orbs removing one of the desirable influence mods on an item in high end crafting.
The more 'basic' mod pool should be targetable with harvest crafting while retaining the risk of targeting influence mods with annuls or remove/add crafts. This gives a greater layer of difficulty when crafting top tier items but allows players to craft their basic non-influence stats to make their build function on a basic level.


Maven orb has a function? Check
High end items are more difficult to craft? Check
Basic leveling and early endgame items can be crafted? Check
Harvest remains relevant and powerful? Check
Exalts have a function? Check
Fossils have a function? Check
Fun? Check


Oh and of course:
REMOVE SPLIT BEASTS!

The only thing that isn't accurate about your post is "High end items are more difficult to craft".

What most people, including GGG don't seem to understand is: even with Harvest crafting, high end items WERE extremely difficult to craft. Harvest just made them a bit more reasonable down from downright impossible. I encourage everyone INCLUDING GGG to watch Pathofmaths video on the statistics of making items before and after. Sadly, GGG is so disconnected from their player base, they probably don't even know who he his.

Forget it, they will run from that video like the plague, because it destroys their joke of a manifesto with nothing but solid arguments.

I was watching a streamer who's doing the gauntlet event, and when I a a few other people talked about Harvest getting nuked he said that the only people complaining about Harvest were "reddit users living in an echo chamber" (oh, the irony) and most players are fine with it.

It's been a couple days, just posting to say that I still strongly disagree with these changes. Ritual league has been the best league you guys have implemented(in my opinion). I have used every crafting system at my disposal from fossils, to essences, alt/aug spam, and of course harvest to create a set of gear that I am proud of. Knowing that I crafted it all myself and didn't have to purchase a single piece has been the most enjoyable part of this league for me. These changes you're planning on making to harvest will severely diminish my enjoyment. I don't want to go back to stash tabs full of fossils, and mediocre multimodded items flooding poe trade. For the first time since I started playing poe I feel like I can play any build I want to, and explore the amazing skill tree you guys have created. This harvest nerf is only going to neuter the enjoyment for your semi casual player base. I don't have 6+ hours a day to dedicate playing....

Your precious 0.1% breaks league after league with one thing - SPLIT BEAST, you could already see messages like this:

Looking for a dedicated beastfarmer (mostly for next league, will be handling all beastcrafting/splitting). Please PM if you have the setup to farm hundreds of beasts early~

Wanna fix this abuse beast? Nope, cause it's good for 0.1%? Wanna let harvest live? Nope, cause it's bad for 0.1%?

GG Chris and all the peeps,

You keep doing you and ill be happy :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxiezsYB0IY

GG GGG