I Think I Figured Out Why Cyberpunk Sux

Minecraft maybe? I am not thinking about RPGs here because you can't really make a coherent story without locking content. Probably some survival games that drop you on an island.

When it comes to RPGs there are plenty. Bethesda is obviously on the forefront but Ubisoft is also there with Assassin's Creed. Cyberpunk is definitely up there too considering after completing the first act the whole map is yours to explore.

GTAV is Better Than Cyberpunk (part 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1bKkUsrs_c
I came across this article, today:

Boomberg - What caused the video-game's disastrous rollout?

I will try to sum, but read the article since it has a good bit of interesting info:

CDPR didn't understand what their desired product would require of them. They weren't prepared for what they wanted to produce. While they started to manage the process, it was nowhere smooth enough to warrant any 2021 release date. Yet, it was a profit-priority for them to release the game in time with the rollout of the new generation of consoles. Why? They wanted to "double-dip" in getting old-gen console sales, but also get increased sales with the arrival of next-gen consoles. Older console owners would buy it and new next-gen owners would buy it because it's a newly released game just-in-time for that next-gen console's shelf appearance.

They stumbled around in the dark, didn't plan properly, didn't manage their project properly, and then tossed their product down the stairs so they could collect the insurance money... Kinda. :)



Article's summary statement:

"
...Interviews with more than 20 current and former CD Projekt staff, most of whom requested anonymity so as not to risk their careers, depict a development process marred by unchecked ambition, poor planning and technical shortcomings. Employees, discussing the game’s creation for the first time, described a company that focused on marketing at the expense of development, and an unrealistic timeline that pressured some into working extensive overtime long before the final push. CD Projekt declined to comment on the process or provide interviews for this story...


While I don't think workers were put into typical "Crunch" like some other developers would easily force on their employees, they were put into "crunch" relative to what they experienced. (13hrs a day for five days a week is... "nothing" in terms of the most terribly abusive Crunches in the industry.) BUT, it was severe enough and had pressures enough for employees to note as a contributing factor.

CDPR designed a game that wasn't possible for them to actually develop at the time they conceptualized it. In straight terms, such an act requires words like "re-tooling" and investing in "new production lines." These are cost factors any business must consider and CDPR, IMO, did not fully comprehend what would be required versus their accustomed production capability.

"
...Another indication of how CD Projekt stretched things too far was that it tried to develop the engine technology behind Cyberpunk 2077, most of which was brand new, simultaneously with the game, which slowed down production. One member of the team compared the process to trying to drive a train while the tracks are being laid in front of you at the same time. It might have gone more smoothly if the track-layers had a few months head start...


This is critical. As stated, it's like trying to drive a train with tracks being laid in front of it as it moves. Where's it going, how, when will it get there, what will be encountered, etc... Once again, this is one of those issues that is outside the normal scope of operations and that has its own very specific issues that will severely impact development. One doesn't really know what one is capable of doing until one has the necessary tools, and is as intimately familiar with them as possible.

"
...“Someone answered: ‘We'll figure it out along the way,’” he said...


"Planning" means... someone has figured it out, already. Whenever someone says in a planning or development sessions "We'll figure it out along the way" they are not justifying their paycheck. More actual work has to be done to prevent people from saying that. :)

"
...Fans and journalists were wowed by Cyberpunk 2077’s ambition and scale. What they didn’t know was that the demo was almost entirely fake...


Fake.

"Fake" as in "what you are seeing does not exist as you interpret it. It is nothing but "marketing."

How many times as consumers have we been "lied to" by marketing videos of games? This problem is as old as dirt, but certainly has been prevalent during the entire existence of "video games."

"Adventure" cover art:



"Adventure" gameplay:



(I loved "Adventure," though. Wonderful game! A great article too, here, so it used to not be so very bad. : :))

"
...One person said they thought the date was a joke. Based on the team’s progress, they expected the game to be ready in 2022.


This is significant in that while it's likely the development team expected more development time, something else had priority...

"
..Even as the timeline looked increasingly unrealistic, management said delaying wasn’t an option. Their goal was to release Cyberpunk 2077 before new consoles from Microsoft and Sony, expected in the fall of 2020, were even announced. That way, the company could launch the game on existing PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and PC, then “double dip” by releasing versions down the road for the next generation consoles...


And, there it is.

They wanted to "double-dip" to sell the game to the previous generation console as well as get new sales for the newer consoles when those hit the market. In short, they wanted to be "in before the console switch" effect, where sales increase across-the-board for new titles with new console generations hitting the market.

"Greed is good."

I'm not saying that this is wrongthink... Businesses have to stay alive, after all, and good game developers give us products we like. They deserve to be paid for their labor. However, here, production was rushed and the game was released prematurely nearly entirely due to CDPR wanting to get the game published for the legacy console market at this specific time so they could benefit from new sales caused by the next-gen console rollout.

They purposefully sacrificed their product's rollout just to be able to get a double-dip effect in timing for the new console releases.
"
Morkonan wrote:

PS: All the anti-hype will be gone pretty soon. Teh interwebz, despite its protestations, has a shot memory. Only truly anti-games keep their profane status, like "Battlecruiser 3000" by "He Who Must Not Be Named"...
Didn't you need to be Smart to play that game?


[quote="Lovecraftuk"]I think the new meta is everyone bitching about the new league. [/quote]
The flaws remain almost strictly for console and are almost strictly technical. For people who play on the PC and who are used to buggy open world games it wasn't such a big deal.
Last edited by Johny_Snow on Jan 21, 2021, 2:03:22 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omyoJ7onNrg

crowbcat 40 min video compiling most about cyberpunk, no words used, except direct quotations from developers in public interviews
Spreading salt since 2006
Spoiler
"
Morkonan wrote:
I came across this article, today:

Boomberg - What caused the video-game's disastrous rollout?

I will try to sum, but read the article since it has a good bit of interesting info:

CDPR didn't understand what their desired product would require of them. They weren't prepared for what they wanted to produce. While they started to manage the process, it was nowhere smooth enough to warrant any 2021 release date. Yet, it was a profit-priority for them to release the game in time with the rollout of the new generation of consoles. Why? They wanted to "double-dip" in getting old-gen console sales, but also get increased sales with the arrival of next-gen consoles. Older console owners would buy it and new next-gen owners would buy it because it's a newly released game just-in-time for that next-gen console's shelf appearance.

They stumbled around in the dark, didn't plan properly, didn't manage their project properly, and then tossed their product down the stairs so they could collect the insurance money... Kinda. :)



Article's summary statement:

"
...Interviews with more than 20 current and former CD Projekt staff, most of whom requested anonymity so as not to risk their careers, depict a development process marred by unchecked ambition, poor planning and technical shortcomings. Employees, discussing the game’s creation for the first time, described a company that focused on marketing at the expense of development, and an unrealistic timeline that pressured some into working extensive overtime long before the final push. CD Projekt declined to comment on the process or provide interviews for this story...


While I don't think workers were put into typical "Crunch" like some other developers would easily force on their employees, they were put into "crunch" relative to what they experienced. (13hrs a day for five days a week is... "nothing" in terms of the most terribly abusive Crunches in the industry.) BUT, it was severe enough and had pressures enough for employees to note as a contributing factor.

CDPR designed a game that wasn't possible for them to actually develop at the time they conceptualized it. In straight terms, such an act requires words like "re-tooling" and investing in "new production lines." These are cost factors any business must consider and CDPR, IMO, did not fully comprehend what would be required versus their accustomed production capability.

"
...Another indication of how CD Projekt stretched things too far was that it tried to develop the engine technology behind Cyberpunk 2077, most of which was brand new, simultaneously with the game, which slowed down production. One member of the team compared the process to trying to drive a train while the tracks are being laid in front of you at the same time. It might have gone more smoothly if the track-layers had a few months head start...


This is critical. As stated, it's like trying to drive a train with tracks being laid in front of it as it moves. Where's it going, how, when will it get there, what will be encountered, etc... Once again, this is one of those issues that is outside the normal scope of operations and that has its own very specific issues that will severely impact development. One doesn't really know what one is capable of doing until one has the necessary tools, and is as intimately familiar with them as possible.

"
...“Someone answered: ‘We'll figure it out along the way,’” he said...


"Planning" means... someone has figured it out, already. Whenever someone says in a planning or development sessions "We'll figure it out along the way" they are not justifying their paycheck. More actual work has to be done to prevent people from saying that. :)

"
...Fans and journalists were wowed by Cyberpunk 2077’s ambition and scale. What they didn’t know was that the demo was almost entirely fake...


Fake.

"Fake" as in "what you are seeing does not exist as you interpret it. It is nothing but "marketing."

How many times as consumers have we been "lied to" by marketing videos of games? This problem is as old as dirt, but certainly has been prevalent during the entire existence of "video games."

"Adventure" cover art:



"Adventure" gameplay:



(I loved "Adventure," though. Wonderful game! A great article too, here, so it used to not be so very bad. : :))

"
...One person said they thought the date was a joke. Based on the team’s progress, they expected the game to be ready in 2022.


This is significant in that while it's likely the development team expected more development time, something else had priority...

"
..Even as the timeline looked increasingly unrealistic, management said delaying wasn’t an option. Their goal was to release Cyberpunk 2077 before new consoles from Microsoft and Sony, expected in the fall of 2020, were even announced. That way, the company could launch the game on existing PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and PC, then “double dip” by releasing versions down the road for the next generation consoles...


And, there it is.

They wanted to "double-dip" to sell the game to the previous generation console as well as get new sales for the newer consoles when those hit the market. In short, they wanted to be "in before the console switch" effect, where sales increase across-the-board for new titles with new console generations hitting the market.

"Greed is good."

I'm not saying that this is wrongthink... Businesses have to stay alive, after all, and good game developers give us products we like. They deserve to be paid for their labor. However, here, production was rushed and the game was released prematurely nearly entirely due to CDPR wanting to get the game published for the legacy console market at this specific time so they could benefit from new sales caused by the next-gen console rollout.

They purposefully sacrificed their product's rollout just to be able to get a double-dip effect in timing for the new console releases.


Thank you for that. What I focus on when I read what you wrote is the part about putting the train tracks in front of the train. And then the double-dipping into multiple console generations. You put the two together and it still fits my theory about the tail wagging the dog here. Where they used the allure of a game in order to fund the development of an engine.

I think the rank and file developers may have been naive to believe that they were hired to make a game when really they were just a smokescreen for CDPR's ascension into Valve-hood/Epic-hood.0
Last edited by BearCares on Jan 21, 2021, 2:11:27 PM
Cyberpunk does not suck. It is a good game. It is just not the game to end all games like many would have hoped. I, myself, have been a fan of CDPR since 2009 and the 1rst Witcher which i considered back then to be a (VERY) flawed masterpiece. The second Witcher is my favorite, but i do recognize the fact that TW3 is the "better" game, and quite possibly the best/most influential fantasy open world RPG of the last decade.

Also CDPR had a reputation of being "different". Of being very ethical with all their free DLCs and to have a huge commitment to quality.

All the above made difficult for people, me included, to swallow the fact that CP was just another game. A good game but just another game.

-The story and characters are a 10.

-Night city design and architecture are also a 10.

-Visual and sound design/music, 10 again.

-The open world experience is a 0. ZERO. Horrible. After you do all the scripted content (including the boring blue markers), which i have, it feels so DEAD that it is depressing.Zero interactivity with the world. The dumbest NPC AI i have seen in decades. The most ridiculous police system since... Ever. Also nothing to do, except slautering pathetic gang members that get one shotted even if you look at them. At least on something like Skyrin, post game there still were dragons and high level monsters to kill. Same in TW3.

-Gameplay starts as decent for shooting, bad for melee (good melee requires dedicated TPP). It becomes atrocious by mid game. For starters 1/3 of the skill tree does not work. Zero build variation by endgame since you can have 56 attribute points out of 85, and over 125 perks. The difficulty is also a joke even on very hard.

All in all, if you disregard the bugs (which are ALOT, even on PC. Alot even for someone who played Skyrim on release), the game is a 7.5 at best IMO.

CDPR could have delivered much more. I think for starters they should ditch their Rockstar approach of developing, where they spent 2/3 of the budget in PR/Marketing and 1/3 in the actual development of the game.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/417287 - Poutsos Flicker Nuke Shadow
Whether Cyberpunk sucks or not, I do not care and it doesn´t matter. Am never, ever going to play it.
If it came out around ´06-´07, I would be ecstatic. Today = Yaawnn. ZZzzZzz...

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