Wolcen Hype Release!

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BTW, what the fuck has to do with Wolcen?

So, i did something wrong by making an off-comment in off-topic ?
How about switching out the developers instead of just the game.

Beeing off from the topic is 8th level meta in offtopic ;)

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The_Scourge wrote:

Yep. Or my favourite, deleting alt-art uniques transmogged. I lost two alt art prismatic eclipses doing that. hahahaha that SUCKED. ^_^

I also started playing D3 again recently, from a vanilla ps3 experience to RoS/Eternal on ps4 pro. So many improvements! That transmog/dye system is pretty damn sexy, although Wolcen's eats it for breakfast for both value for gold and variety, given Wolcen's dye system takes into account various surfaces of the armour a la Black Desert Online and other MMOs.

You know, this reminds me of something. It's been 7 years and we still have no way to skin alt-art uniques in PoE across leagues, which is basically the only reason anyone raced -- to get these rare as hell skins for generally mediocre uniques. 7 freakin' years man, and they're still languishing in standard league stashes.

But you know, at least you can look like a clown for the low, low price of $50USD or so.

Thats because anything that keeps you from looking like a homeless hobo costs 50+ bucks in PoE. Can't have you being able to transmog items to attempt to curtail that money stream.

Its sad I'm playing Grim Dawn atm, and you can even transmog in a single player game.

It sucks that Wolcen just isn't good. I'm not a PoE stan; I've played the game off and on for a long time, but there is a ton of things I think PoE does wrong or gets away with just because competition doesnt exist. I'd rather play D3 any day of the week if I'm being honest, but its just too damn old. Theres no content there. PoE is like that ex-girlfriend who treats you like crap, but you keep going back to her because you dont have any other options.

I was hoping Wolcen would be it, but its not. I'm hoping Torchlight 3 is ok; its gonna be online. I think Grim Dawn is pretty decent; but its off-line so never had a chance to compete. Its D4 we waiting on.

D3 is fine for chatting and BSing with friends. That's about as much brainpower as it takes. People say the same of PoE but that's only true after copying or formulating a build, gathering the gear, grinding through the levels to reach a point where all the pieces start to click. For a lot of older ARPG players, that's the very definition of tedium -- we like things to be clicking much earlier than halfway through a character's leveling life. And doing it over and again every 3 months from scratch through the same well-worn, bloated 'story'? Good lord. That's the domain of the no-lifer, which is more than just someone who has the time to spare (as I do, obviously) -- that's someone who somehow can justify allocating all that time to something so blatantly wasteful and temporary. But eh, fun is subjective and all that.

Getting back to that idea of early game excitement, consider D1: you were doing pretty much the same thing in the first hour as you were in the next 100; the level of tension didn't really increase or ease up. Death really was potentially around the next corner. Slightly less true of D2, given some skills were locked until level 30, and those skills were much more adept at room-clearing than D1's limited spell offering. With D3, there's a step back to the earlier excitement but in a different direction than D1's, since even low level skills can obliterate hordes in a suitably flashy manner.

This is also the route Wolcen takes. As one Exile put it, Wolcen makes you feel heroic from level 1, and that is an achievement. Heroic is a good choice of words, given your player-character is a hero of the world from the get-go, albeit a heavily indoctrinated one forced to 'start over' bereft of their order's trappings.

As for Wolcen's flaws, it's interesting because I'm seeing the same rejection of what it does do right over what it does do wrong that I saw in 2012 from D3 diehards regarding PoE. This is, of course, after the whole error 37 debacle. It is therefore no surprise that the same D3 diehards, who never found PoE's convolutions palatable, are really enjoying Wolcen.

But I don't think anyone held any illusions that many people would 'switch' from PoE to Wolcen. I won't drag out the same drug analogy as always, other than to point out that the main reason many addicts switched from legal painkillers like oxycontin to illegal drugs like heroin was because the former's supply of pill mills was decisively shut down. That's what it takes to shift an addict from their routine: an absolute need to seek the same thing as they've come to rely on in a daily sense that has now been taken away. PoE is far, far from that state.

Also, if that's how you see PoE, as the crazy ex who fucked you over but you keep going back because you perceive no other options, that's a you problem. Bigtime. Don't take it out on the other girls you try to date who aren't crazy or destructive even though they have flaws of their own. It just makes you look as batshit crazy as the ex you can't bring yourself to leave.

You are absolutely not a hero from level one. I mentioned it before but I played a ranged character. The start is so poor the first several hours are actually painful to play. Trying to kite while the game lags, having horrendous skills to start off, collecting money for something better. Nope, not heroic, you feel like a gimp.

Or do you mean the story? Cause I am not sure many people care. The only thing I want from a story in an ARPG is an ability to skip all the talk.

The latest patch is a dumpster fire.

The issue wasn't that they nerfed Bleeding Edge, but they nerfed crits as well, which is a blanket nerf to everything that doesn't use Bleeding Edge.

Everything that didn't use Bleeding Edge was already extremely strapped for damage in end game running the top floors. The game is extremely slow and boring to play now. It's one of the slowest ARPGs out there, to be honest.

I'd try Last Epoch, but no offline = I won't play it.

The Wolcen Developers were told by pretty much everyone that the Aspect of the Apocalypse forms were garbage, and didn't do nearly enough damage, so they threw some token damage buffs to them, and nerfed the durations. Called it a done deal, and now they've locked feedback on these. They're still garbage! You turn into a badass looking demonic creature just to do way less damage than you can do while not being a badass looking demonic creature. Makes sense, right? This is a mechanic that's just extremely poorly implemented. They could remove it from the game entirely, and nobody's game or build would change in the slightest.

The buffs they gave to summons are also extremely laughable. Pet builds are worse in Wolcen than they are in any other ARPG I've ever played.

Wolcen Developers: Guts the current meta, doesn't provide a new one.

Out of all the criticism I got for GGG and PoE, at least they "shift" the meta to where something else is good.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

The latest patch is a dumpster fire.

The issue wasn't that they nerfed Bleeding Edge, but they nerfed crits as well, which is a blanket nerf to everything that doesn't use Bleeding Edge.

Everything that didn't use Bleeding Edge was already extremely strapped for damage in end game running the top floors. The game is extremely slow and boring to play now. It's one of the slowest ARPGs out there, to be honest.

I'd try Last Epoch, but no offline = I won't play it.

The Wolcen Developers were told by pretty much everyone that the Aspect of the Apocalypse forms were garbage, and didn't do nearly enough damage, so they threw some token damage buffs to them, and nerfed the durations. Called it a done deal, and now they've locked feedback on these. They're still garbage! You turn into a badass looking demonic creature just to do way less damage than you can do while not being a badass looking demonic creature. Makes sense, right? This is a mechanic that's just extremely poorly implemented. They could remove it from the game entirely, and nobody's game or build would change in the slightest.

The buffs they gave to summons are also extremely laughable. Pet builds are worse in Wolcen than they are in any other ARPG I've ever played.

Wolcen Developers: Guts the current meta, doesn't provide a new one.

Out of all the criticism I got for GGG and PoE, at least they "shift" the meta to where something else is good.

Ya the crit nerf was over the top, then they nerfed all the lesser nodes too. I'm not really happy about that.

*edit*
Jumped on for a bit to see how things feel after the patch. I'm still working through the expeditions, and was on the last one for vet before getting into champion before the patch. I'm only level 58 but I was doing fine, a bit slow before but I wasn't dying and the boss fights didn't take too long. Now, I'm taking A LOT longer in the fights, and my damage seems terrible. Finished my last vet unlocking champion but it felt absolutely terrible. I'm going to have to look back and see what else I can do to progress.

I don't think they want there to be any meta builds. I think they want to get to the point of all builds being a roughly equal amount of suck.

Technically that's the dream. It's an impossible one, but it is the ideal.

The basic argument that people shouldn't be running true endgame stuff in a matter of days from release rings true to me, but I guess they're so used to it from other games that when the means to do so is taken away, they cry foul. Oh well, everyone knew the Bledge gutting was coming. There it is, in all its hammered glory. If the one skill that made the game feel 'not slow or boring' (i.e. like endgame PoE for veteran exiles) is now slammed, and the pace has been subsequent dialled back, then we can only conclude that is how the devs want it. And I'm a big fan of devs making games the way they want them to be, not pandering to the demands of spoilt gamers. IF that dev stubbornness damages the game or company dramatically, you'll see change soon enough. If not, then I'm content to play the game they want to make. Warts and all. This seems to be something of an antiquated attitude though, so who knows. I do think they have more leeway to be stubborn when it's a buy-to-play though. Chris has said repeatedly regarding PoE and its f2p model: 'the players are the boss', which to me is like saying passengers should get to dictate how a plane is flown, not the guy sitting in the cockpit with years and years of experience. Of course, how much of Chris' glib commentary can be taken to heart will likely remain secret until the end of time.

I'll see how the Wolcen crit changes feel. I definitely lean on crit a lot regardless of build because it's so easy to do so, so maybe that's sign enough that I shouldn't. OTOH ailments are still monstrous so there's that to consider.

I'm just glad they got rid of the bats, at least for now. Time to get back to my ranged builds!

Ok, so maybe level 187 is just a trap for OP builds, and anyone that beats it means that something else needs to be nerfed? The end goal of the balancing should be that nobody clears that floor using anything. So the balancing M.O. should be to nerf anything that might give someone the remote possibility of ever clearing level 187, solo. More nerfs are required.

Let's nerf Immortal Offering, Which Time Cannot Heal, Anomaly (2 vortexes, does a bunch of ticks, massive CC with the pulling waves, and low enough CD to make it perma with gear), and Bladestorm (still does too much damage with the ailment mod).

Let's nerf all that, and not one person, even the most determined, masochistic gamer in the existence of gaming will clear floor 187, ever.

Even way less OP builds than Bleeding Edge got nerfed, for example below

This is close to the maximum you can do with a mage build (using a staff):

https://youtu.be/Qn_4drGM7qo

I improved the setup a little over what it was in the video, gave it more crit % and crit damage %. But it only increased the damage by about 20-25%. I don't think anyone in their right might would say that this is OP, considering the gear it took to make this build work. You need INSANE gear for this build. This build still works after the patch, however I did lose a bit of damage due to the crit damage % nerfs. The point is, this was completely and totally unnecessary. I don't think that mage build is OP at all. Taking down some of those champs and the boss was a fucking slough. It melted packs of trash easily enough. I haven't found a video of anyone doing much better with a staff wielding mage. This build doesn't even do 1/50th the DPS of Bleeding Edge, maybe not even 1/100th. And it still got nerfed....

The end goal of their balancing will obviously be that nobody clears floor 187, solo. And the nerfs have just begun, I guarantee you when the patch drops next week, one or more of the skills I listed above will be nerfed. Bet me.

It seems to me like Wolcen developers intend for expedition 187-189 to be like GR 150 in Diablo 3. And balancing from here on out is going to reflect this, and they're going to take something good away in every patch, until things are like that. If this is what they're going to do, sorry, but I think I'll just go back to Diablo 3, because Diablo 3 is a better game.

You can already respec builds in Wolcen on the fly, which basically means it's no more complex than Diablo 3 is, if you get to the nuts and bolts. Most of the passive tree skills matter very little, and most of them are used as bridges to get to the beefy, multiplicative damage increasing nodes. But, if you remove the later, then I could just write my initials on the passive skill tree, or draw a cat head, call it a done build, get damage and defenses on every piece of gear (just like D3), and it'll be functionally as good as anyone else's build. While having worse gameplay, and worse performance than D3.

Wolcen "feels" more like D3 than any other ARPG on the market that's not D3. What I can't understand is how people can knock D3, and at the same time praise Wolcen? D3 does nearly everything better than Wolcen does.

So you wont play Last Epoch because its not offline but will go back to Diablo 3 which is always online?