Fair warning to all, just ran into some kind of metamorph BS that one-shotted my 4ex animated guardian (and me, and all my zombies and spectres). Chimera was involved, not sure what else I put in it.
You must have used organ from him and matamoprh had this insane spectral throw ability.
This was in the Chimera map, not Tane's lab, so it wasn't that. Sorry I wasn't more clear. I think it might have been some kind of chain corpse explosion.
That said, thanks for the warning...I'll stay away from Acid Caverns!
Thank you! Would you use Feeding Frenzy or Meatshield instead of Awakened Minion Damage with my gear then? Already got Awakened Melee Phys. I'd go for Meatshield personally but would like to hear opinions!
I'm far from the most experienced in testing this, but in tunnel style maps I didn't really notice any difference, but in open fields FF is noticeable. If you use FF linked to your golems, then MS offers much more utility/dps but makes you defensive. If you don't link it, then I'd definitely use FF.
Really though, it's gear dependent. At a certain point more dps does nothing more than puff out your chest more.
@ SunL4D2
"
SunL4D2 wrote:
Of course it's just rough esteamate just accurate enough.
1. It won't make much of a difference as they don't have additional OP effects. Besides he uses Awakened Melee Physical, etc. etc.
2. Both builds benefit from Intimidate. Simulating Chill as I mentioned would make it even more in favour of cold version. Ticking power charges barely gives minions damage.
3. I don't care about PoF but pretty sure you can figure out the way to reserve it given SB is 35% mana reserved not 50%.
4. No, you only have Vulnerablity for self-cast curse for phys version massive direct damage increases. Punishment is unreliable and Assassin's Mark will do basically nothing.
I like your conclusion when none of your mentioned points would actually reduce damage of cold version in any meaningful way. *shrugs*
Feel free to edit PoB to include everything if you want, but you will always have significantly more damage with cold version in the end without anything fancy, because of it's mechanics. Though as I said it's still not really worth it at this point.
I think what DocRoberts is getting at is you compared 2 very different builds. If you want to do a side by side comparison, you need to keep everything identical except for what is required to change. Also, if you factor in the increased crit multi from Kingmaker, 3 power charges on their own grant ~23% more damage. Adding Assassin's mark to the mix only gives about 3.7% more Shaper dps, so you're right on that account, but then you are forced to account for not only the loss of ST but of Enfeeble as well on the defensive side.
I again say post side by side comparisons if you want any of us to actually look into it. It's quite dreary when someone comes into a build thread and says "my build is better, hehe." You changed too much for it to still be "this build."
@ clozzer
"
clozzer wrote:
Sorry if this is a stupid question - but does "minions have a 5% chance to deal double damage" stack? Sounds to me like it would not.
All sources of "minions deal #% double damage" stack like any other mod in the game. So the 5% from Gravepact, the 10% or 40% (with Saqawal's) from Aspect of the Avian, and any gear mod you may have will all stack up to a max of 100%.
That means for the standard build minions will have 5% chance to deal double damage half the time and 45% chance the other half. Any gear mods will simply add to both those.
https://pastebin.com/46LRU4ty
You need LocalIdentity's fork to see the actual numbers https://github.com/LocalIdentity/PathOfBuilding. I have also 320% elegant hubris included for easy comparison between 2 jewels.
very nice build, but i have a question. where do you get fortify? kingsmaker?
Of course it's just rough esteamate just accurate enough.
1. It won't make much of a difference as they don't have additional OP effects. Besides he uses Awakened Melee Physical, etc. etc.
2. Both builds benefit from Intimidate. Simulating Chill as I mentioned would make it even more in favour of cold version. Ticking power charges barely gives minions damage.
3. I don't care about PoF but pretty sure you can figure out the way to reserve it given SB is 35% mana reserved not 50%.
4. No, you only have Vulnerablity for self-cast curse for phys version massive direct damage increases. Punishment is unreliable and Assassin's Mark will do basically nothing.
I like your conclusion when none of your mentioned points would actually reduce damage of cold version in any meaningful way. *shrugs*
Feel free to edit PoB to include everything if you want, but you will always have significantly more damage with cold version in the end without anything fancy, because of it's mechanics. Though as I said it's still not really worth it at this point.
I played around abit with both builds and cold did pop up as more teoretical damage, however i feel like the struggle to keep that dps number up all the time is a struggle. You also drop shapers touch for alot of ES/sec and in general a big ES pool, so i'd say its really what you want.
Thank you! Would you use Feeding Frenzy or Meatshield instead of Awakened Minion Damage with my gear then? Already got Awakened Melee Phys. I'd go for Meatshield personally but would like to hear opinions!
I'm far from the most experienced in testing this, but in tunnel style maps I didn't really notice any difference, but in open fields FF is noticeable. If you use FF linked to your golems, then MS offers much more utility/dps but makes you defensive. If you don't link it, then I'd definitely use FF.
Really though, it's gear dependent. At a certain point more dps does nothing more than puff out your chest more.
@ SunL4D2
"
SunL4D2 wrote:
Of course it's just rough esteamate just accurate enough.
1. It won't make much of a difference as they don't have additional OP effects. Besides he uses Awakened Melee Physical, etc. etc.
2. Both builds benefit from Intimidate. Simulating Chill as I mentioned would make it even more in favour of cold version. Ticking power charges barely gives minions damage.
3. I don't care about PoF but pretty sure you can figure out the way to reserve it given SB is 35% mana reserved not 50%.
4. No, you only have Vulnerablity for self-cast curse for phys version massive direct damage increases. Punishment is unreliable and Assassin's Mark will do basically nothing.
I like your conclusion when none of your mentioned points would actually reduce damage of cold version in any meaningful way. *shrugs*
Feel free to edit PoB to include everything if you want, but you will always have significantly more damage with cold version in the end without anything fancy, because of it's mechanics. Though as I said it's still not really worth it at this point.
I think what DocRoberts is getting at is you compared 2 very different builds. If you want to do a side by side comparison, you need to keep everything identical except for what is required to change. Also, if you factor in the increased crit multi from Kingmaker, 3 power charges on their own grant ~23% more damage. Adding Assassin's mark to the mix only gives about 3.7% more Shaper dps, so you're right on that account, but then you are forced to account for not only the loss of ST but of Enfeeble as well on the defensive side.
I again say post side by side comparisons if you want any of us to actually look into it. It's quite dreary when someone comes into a build thread and says "my build is better, hehe." You changed too much for it to still be "this build."
@ clozzer
"
clozzer wrote:
Sorry if this is a stupid question - but does "minions have a 5% chance to deal double damage" stack? Sounds to me like it would not.
All sources of "minions deal #% double damage" stack like any other mod in the game. So the 5% from Gravepact, the 10% or 40% (with Saqawal's) from Aspect of the Avian, and any gear mod you may have will all stack up to a max of 100%.
That means for the standard build minions will have 5% chance to deal double damage half the time and 45% chance the other half. Any gear mods will simply add to both those.
It's clear alternative has signficantly more damage. If you want to do in-depth side by side comparision feel free. You have all the tools for that.
Last edited by SunL4D2#6224 on Feb 1, 2020, 9:05:42 PM
