Development Manifesto: Legion as a Core Game Mechanic

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philosoaper wrote:

so it's going to be the usual trash then..

some fun mechanic that is added to the core game in a way that you barely get to interact with it.. so instead of something that is fun, it gets to be this never ending "tease" of some content that is there but not really accessible..

I thought this bullshit was one of the things you planned on fixing in 3.8 that was "delayed" from 3.7..

bleh.. not sure I even wanna know what 3.8 is gonna be now..

This right here ^

I play SSF only and so what you're basically saying with a 10% chance I'll be STUPID lucky to get a 5 slot map device by the end of the league. I got 2 chayula stones this league from legion, and after thousands of maps i have a total of 126 chayula splinters. I'm certain at least 20 of those were from legion chests too.

GGG should give the option to play a league/standard without all the other core leagues. As it is right now, it's a huge cluster of annoying encounters, and you feel terrible for skipping. I just feel the game has gotten super sloppy, and I miss the old days! Of course just pile on more league content to the core...

I miss just having fun mapping.

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Gorkk wrote:

Actually you could had a couple more builds:

• vaal ice nova for glacier farming (better than ED+Contagion, one click unfreeze, one click kill, no moving, just might need a few more clicks if there's a general)
• (about as expensive as HH+IL builds) vaal arc: still not as efficient as HH+IL, but more versatile, as being able to 1 cast unfreeze / 1 cast kill the legion even in high tier maps, get 5 rows in DoTC solo, kill bosses (UE I'm not sure)

Did you actually try out either of these? 'cuz I spent a fair bit of time theorycrafting on BOTH of them, and... Well, once I went past just the PoB paper-stats stage, the two started showing a fair bit of problems. For starters, besides the uptime issue, Vaal Ice Nova also has performance issues...

And Vaal Arc, as impressive as it seems, only hits 66 enemies at level 21, (78 if you can manage to boost it to level 25) which is only good for a fraction of a monolith... Provided that the limited range on its chaining (as they nerfed that) doesn't wind up blocking it off. (this is not entirely unlike the issue flicker strike has, where it'll send you off and basically paint yourself into a corner, requiring you to run over to a separate part of the pack to continue clearing. Only with Vaal Arc... You don't get a second use before the timer runs out.

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ACGIFT wrote:

Did you actually try out either of these? 'cuz I spent a fair bit of time theorycrafting on BOTH of them, and... Well, once I went past just the PoB paper-stats stage, the two started showing a fair bit of problems. For starters, besides the uptime issue, Vaal Ice Nova also has performance issues...

And Vaal Arc, as impressive as it seems, only hits 66 enemies at level 21, (78 if you can manage to boost it to level 25) which is only good for a fraction of a monolith... Provided that the limited range on its chaining (as they nerfed that) doesn't wind up blocking it off. (this is not entirely unlike the issue flicker strike has, where it'll send you off and basically paint yourself into a corner, requiring you to run over to a separate part of the pack to continue clearing. Only with Vaal Arc... You don't get a second use before the timer runs out.

Did not try them myself, but saw videos of them. Performance issues for Vaal Ice Nova is obviously something else, but with no legion general it would nearly always clear the legion in glacier (specifically) in one cast.

For Vaal Arc there were a couple of videos, some of low level MFing (like BC), did not check precisly, maybe it was 2/3 casts in about 1s, but considering the build is so that you have 5+ charges and your vaal arc can give you souls back, that's not very different to a single cast.
And one video of a Korean running DoTC solo with it an getting 5+ rows of loot (but the build was as expensive as a HH+IL build while much less efficient).

Those are just outliers though, and very niche, and that was imho the league with the lowest diversity among builds viable for league content over the past 6 leagues at least. Most builds, while clearing decently fast in usual mapping and being relatively rounded, would fail to properly unfreeze the legion (and would any case require much much more work than the select few builds), and would be at high risk of being simply one shot afterwards by the mobs, considering that if you're not very fast with at least some range on your attack you cannot manoeuvre reliably around the ludicrous high damage high range attacks of the legion mobs: when you just kill them offscreen before they can attack you (even with cyclone, the “melee” skill), obviously it's not really a problem

Edit : and with this in mind, the fact that they integrate Legion into core essentially “as is” with loot nerfs for high end builds and no boost for regular builds (yeah it's clear they will not boost it for other builds, so it will just be unprofitable for all, and still be high-end XP for HH+IL builds) is particularly disappointing.

-1 personally. I enjoyed Legion, but it felt like a fun seasonal mechanic and not something to go core.

IMO:
The only "Fun" from Legion was the loot raining down. The mechanics themselves are:
- RNG on the encounter's difficulty (they can spawn with double or triple the damage/danger of the current map boss)
- Map Layout (god forbid you like using the Atlas as intended and not gimping it to a strategy)
- Loot raining down in all directions (this part was cool though)

Did they ever figure out a good system for timeless jewels and I missed the memo? Checking/trading/etc.

I agree with most of the previous posts about how it could be changed to be better, but the 5way nonsense is not fixed.

Totally underwhelmed by Legion. It didn't suck nearly as badly as Betrayal or Synthesis, but it was still pretty lame. I know a lot of people won't agree with me, but I don't particularly care.

In my opinion, the leagues' appeal has been on a precipitous downward trend starting after Harbinger. Legion couldn't even muster a decent hat, whether for challenges or for $10.

if you want our breachstones come from breach,

stop nerfing it,

now breach just feels like shit,

it only drops like 999 tul, 20 chayula

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Extracat wrote:

if you want our breachstones come from breach,
stop nerfing it,
now breach just feels like shit,
it only drops like 999 tul, 20 chayula

This is because GGG is trying to force players to do all content while most of people would prefer to do specific parts of the content. I cannot understand that approach.
Why instead of allowing their clients to enjoy parts of the game they like the most, GGG is trying to nerf everything to make is as not interesting as other parts. This is very strange approach - some people would prefer to make Breaches, some Delve, some Betrayal and some of them would just do mapping. I personally hate mapping and I would prefer to do Delve. Maybe after few months I will consider this boring and I would like to switch to do Legion content... But GGG ensured that it will not be easy.

Please think about people with low-spec PC at future releases. After removing DX9 game became barely playable (or unplayable in some maps) for set of people (including me; i think affects most bussiness line laptops).

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sta1n wrote:

Please think about people with low-spec PC at future releases. After removing DX9 game became barely playable (or unplayable in some maps) for set of people (including me; i think affects most bussiness line laptops).

They think you should buy a high-spec one. :)
GGG is not an exception - all games develop only in the one direction. Code optimisation was an option only when there were 8 and 16 bit closed architecture microcomputers on the gaming market. Once games started to be massively created for PC... there was always only one option - to buy a better hardware. That situation lasts from approx 25 years already. It is unlikely to be changed.