Incinerate

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Peterlerock wrote:

I always thought the damage is slightly overtuned to balance the "no crit".

But even considering this, it's still massively overtuned, compared to other spells.

I swapped for some other fire spells during levelling, none of them can hold up against Incinerate.

So I wouldn't want to see Incenerate nerfed (at least not by a lot), but maybe get the other spells on par?

recently playing new incinerate build, and I have to agree with Peter..
how come my Lv 60 Incinerate kills mobs easily than my 85 ice nova full BiS..

On my cast speed oriented character, I realized the limit to cast speed is 25 casts per second, noticing further cast speed nodes do not in fact give any more casts or dps.
That's about 400% sh cast speed modifier, or about 160% cast speed in items and nodes.
Not sure if WAD or bug, but I thought I'd let you know.

I feel is unacceptable the GGG not having nerfed incinerate yet.

I understand not wanting to make changes during warbands/tempest. But you had oportunity before Flashback. And did nothing.

And had opportunity before Darkshrine, and did nothing.

This is coming from someone who best character in standard is a incinerate build.

But is simple ridiculous GGG taking 5months withouth such obvious balance mistake, even with two opportunity of changing (which would take 30 sec of a programmer time).

Incinerate OP meta is just ridiculous, you could nerf 10% of it and would still be the most used spell.

SHAME ON YOU GGG!

SHAME ON YOU GGG, for making all new league builds that don't use incinerate pointless.

SHAME ON YOU!

EDIT:Background on my anger list:

1-I only play my incinerate build on standard cause is so powerfull.
2-Playing new leagues feel boring, since I would be forced to remake incinerate char which I already play on standard.
3-Playing new league feel unrewarding, cause I make so currency on standard and is so easy and fast clear speed with incinerate, that I feel like I should abuse the clear incinerate Meta OP until it eventual fix, thus I feel abliged to play incinerate always, cause is broken . And I must abuse!Cause money speaks louder than fun on a Grinding game.
4-Five fracking months=3 leagues and nothing. Cmon GGG.
5- Is clearly a mistake, proven by fact most of awekening beta had a bug with incinerate where only the first stage was working, the more modifiers werent working, thus most of the beta was balanced around a data that became unreliable as soon as the fix to incinerate stages was introduced, effectively making incinerate OP. OP is a understatement.
6- I respect GGG too much, not to say. Shame on you!

90+ Incinerate player here (main in permanent league is currently lvl 93)

I agree with ropumar's statement and i would even go that far: If GGG hypotheticly nerf Incinerate by let's say:

- Incinerate now deals 50% less damage than in 2.0

the skill would remain endgame vaible (by that i mean lvl Tier 13 to Tier 15 maps). Incinerate is an absolutly rediculous skill in terms of damage vs investment.


Incinerate needs a mechanical nerf, reducing the over all damage of the skill won't do much. Nerfing cast speed, mulitplier and stages would be the way to go i feel in addition to a damage nerf.

playing a blood magic scion incinerator in darkshrines ic003 league. first time using this skill.



currently level 46 and it's working pretty well so far. my only real gripe was at level 12 when i started using the spell and the 10 or so following levels the mana cost was much too high. had to pop a mana flask after killing every monster.

this was even with twink items such as these. very tough on mana on lower levels.


summary:

+ good damage expecially at third stage
+ decent aoe coverage with mediocre projectile speed and lmp
+ can use gem rather early at lvl 12 albeit high mana cost
+ doesn't require much investment in damage passives and gear.

- too high mana cost in the first ten levels or more
- susceptible to lightning thorns and corrupting blood
- short range
- very vulnerable to jumping monsters and lightning storms
- stationary
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2015-12-05: level 78 now in darkshrine league.

been playing around with this more. i am extremely vulnerable to leapers. the number one cause of death. i also get killed by piety's lightning storm because i have to be stationary to attack. this is a big weakness with this sort of spell i'm not sure i like much. but it is just the nature of the spell and how it works.

i have therefore lowered my rating from 4 to 3.
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i give this spell a 3/5 rating. a decent spell that is easy to use but not without downsides.

I heard rumors that its going to be nerfed, but after so much time elapsed I don't give much hopes, as poison arrow and explosive arrow wasn't balanced sufficiently as well.
Would like that ggg would enlighten us with their reasoning- why they keep things they are. I hope the reason isn't that the skill is overpopular and with nerf it would anger a lot of people who uses it.

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Andrius319 wrote:

I heard rumors that its going to be nerfed, but after so much time elapsed I don't give much hopes, as poison arrow and explosive arrow wasn't balanced sufficiently as well.
Would like that ggg would enlighten us with their reasoning- why they keep things they are. I hope the reason isn't that the skill is overpopular and with nerf it would anger a lot of people who uses it.

They aren't rumors, Chris posted the following on Reddit a few weeks ago in a discussion regarding the 2.1 patch here:

"Hey, you're right about the mana gain per level change (and Incinerate is certainly being adjusted due to its silly power level)."

I understand why you feel like it needs a massive nerf, but please don't leave me with another completely useless character (that I've invested ALL of my currency into) on permanent leagues. Don't overkill it like has been done it the past with other abilities and leave us with another bad skill gem. I'm one of those crazy people who wants to hit 100 in a permanent league and my hopes have been dashed so many times by overkill nerfs. It's incredibly disheartening and frustrating to see all of your hard work go down the drain in the snap of a finger.

Balance it, don't overkill it, keep it endgame viable with heavy investment please.

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XSyntheticX wrote:

I understand why you feel like it needs a massive nerf, but please don't leave me with another completely useless character (that I've invested ALL of my currency into) on permanent leagues. Don't overkill it like has been done it the past with other abilities and leave us with another bad skill gem. I'm one of those crazy people who wants to hit 100 in a permanent league and my hopes have been dashed so many times by overkill nerfs. It's incredibly disheartening and frustrating to see all of your hard work go down the drain in the snap of a finger.

Balance it, don't overkill it, keep it endgame viable with heavy investment please.

i think if youre geared well incinerate still will be very good! i spend over 200ex in this build, and the incoming nerf wont stop me from playing it. unless it'll become just as useless as once the skill came out over two years ago, but i completely doubt that. it is true that inci in its current form is completely overtuned because even without gear, all instances are complete massacres in a very short time. so that will change. but for the good geared ppl it will still be decent i expect.

I stand by incinerate is so good because there is no crit involved.

Incinerate clear speed is nothing compared to crit tornado shot, and with crit tornado shot I (had) unlimited flask use. So I could invest in all damage and run a granite with 99% free extra armor, an evasion flask (for only spending a few more points to get IR) and get another 99% free as well as free 5k armor between the two. Then just get free res from running the three res flasks (or rather, leave out ice and get a health flask) and then just blow screens up and run like hell. Carry three people while exploding loot everywhere.

Or, I can run my incinerate, have to stand still to channel, get no free flask effects, and do almost the same amount of damage. Anyone saying incinerate is OP hasn't gotten a well geared crit character together. They have nerfed crit THREE times (in a big way) and still it was crit or go home. People keep saying they want an alternative to crit, but when incinerate gives them an option to dps like crit without going crit (so no shock/freeze/ignite, no free flask charges, and no Cast on crit spells blasting all over) people freak out and want it nerfed.

Incinerate was NOT better than a Mjolner build. (btw, I paid more for my incinerate wand then I did for my Mjolner) It isn't better than a well, or even equally, geared CoC character. It was pretty nice for running mf, and was reasonably well to gear. Just like every other good build, it was viable with minimal investment and required, and without GG gear hits a brick wall as you progress into upper maps.

I still died with the build, I still had to invest in gear (both offense and defense to get it going well) and I still had lots of room to improve. It didn't feel like the best build I had ever played, it is just the one I played most actively this last league.

I think there are a lot of haters on it, but few that really understand that we need more builds bridging the gap between crit and non crit. It isn't that Crit is so insanely strong (although it can be) it is that non crit can't hit those damage numbers as well as get all the other free perks. As soon as anything comes along that doesn't need crit to murder a map everyone loses their minds.

We need a few other non crit amazing options, not less.

if you feel the need to gut this spell as you seem so intent to do, through a crit chance on it. I saw earlier that someone mentioned how much stronger it is compared to flame surge and fireball (which are getting buffed this next patch anyway) yet add crit to them? A really nice crit flame surge isn't just about a few nodes invested on the tree, it is the fact you can hit 4X crit multi with good gear. There is no magic crit power for incinerate.

Cyclone Cast on Crit Discharge makes incinerate want to cry. With that you get fortify, massive damage, crit bonuses, and face melting damage. With incinerate you get... a lot of damage without crit that you have to stand still to get.