Puncture

The soul eater bug I reported last year in March/April still exists btw

Question regarding LMP/GMP and its "Less Projectile Damage" effect on the bleed.

Lets say I have 100% increased physical damage (from levelled gem, rustic sash, Oak reward etc), and 200% increased projectile damage (levelled LMP, passives etc).

After all modifiers are taken into account, our example arrow hits a target for 100 physical damage.
The base bleed is 10/50, total of 60% (we will assume moving victim).

How is the bleed scaling affected?

We have 100% plus 200% increases giving 300% increased bleed for a result of 240 bleed damage per second.

Is the DoT overall reduced?
* With say LMP, will the entire bleed be pulled back by 30% to 168? (I suspect it is this one).
* Or do we separate the physical and projectile properties somehow?
Does it become 100% increased physical and 140% increased projectile for a result of 204 bleed? (seems unlikely as it breaks the rule of all increases being additive)
* Is the bleed in this example not affected at all by LMP (or GMP)?

@UP

LMP/GMP reduce projectile damage and puncture bleed effect dmg scale of the hit. Reducing damage of projecetile will reduce the dmg of bleed. But if you ask if it will double reduce dmg (one from hi, and again for bleed) then I dont think it does.


@topic

Puncture got overnerfed in my opinion. Its the only skill in game that can be replaced by single mod on item or some passives that cause bleeding.

Puncture should work in different way, and there are few solutions:
1)Simply buff the damage of bleeding effect to be again better than "Bleeding" mods.
2)Increase skill base dmg to 120% or so, just like burning/ice shot.
3)Add secondary effect like: reduce enemy attack and movement speed.
4)Add stacks to bleeding mechanics so it will deal less dmg with 1 stack, but overally more when stacked.

this skill need a new favor.
now we have Bleed nodes in tree, as well as mods in weapon, which do THE SAME THING, Bleed!
Bleed not stacking flatly denied Puncture as main skill, spam skill.

This skill needs a revamp due to all the reasons mentioned by others.

The damage should be raised and the bleeding mechanic should be different from what we can get from gear/passives and obviously better (Not useless on stationary targets, which is many bosses). As a bow user I find it ridiculous that something like Tornado Shot (AoE) provides way better single target DPS than Puncture, even on moving targets.

I have only found it decent on extremely fast melee monsters but there aren't many of those and many just leap at you anyway.

As I noticed Puncture isnt designed at all for "main skill", but more as a "support skill".
GGG should make something to make it viable as "main skill".

Like @UP wrote, it need to have something that make it something more than "bleeding on hit" on some items or passives. I shouldnt be able to get whole active skill power from an item/passive.

Just like with frenzy, maybe you can get frenzy charges from other sources, but frenzy itself got own boosts from frenzy charges.

Puncture need something that will make it THE BEST in bleeding. There are many things GGG could add, few suggestions from me:
- puncture deal 10% more stationary and mobile damage comparing to other bleeds (so 20% stationary instead of 10% etc.)
- puncture have more damage on bleeding targets (that would make it good as main skill)


Additionaly Puncture have redudant %quality bonus. Increased bleeding duration is useless IMO. It give you absolutly nothing since the base time is long and it doesnt stack at all, really bad even as support skill since there is no problem to reapply something that last 5 seconds. Increased physical damage would be much better and would support it in all builds well.

As the last point I would like to write something regarding ascendancy helm enchants:
1)Increased damage on puncture - boring enchant, but its like any other skill so its ok
2)Increased duration - like point above, useless
3)Chance to main on hit - main as a mechanic is boring, since chill is easier to apply, have more sources and also slow attack/movement speed instead of just movement (didnt use maim yet, maybe it stacks then it might be cool) - the only enchant that apply something to the skill (but only if maim stack with chill).

wiki says that puncture stacks with bleed mod for 10 seconds. Is this true? If so is this just for weapons or for passive skills as well?

With so many bleed sources puncture totally lost it prupose in the game.

im running a tornado shot build and im wondering if its even worth using puncture or if i should just use the rupture passive from the deadeye tree.

Something really off about puncture is that when I use it with rapiers, my character does a slash instead of a thrust. Like why? You're supposed thrust with the rapier to puncture, not slash.

A way I would like to see this skill changed would be if it was still a bleeding skill but you do a cone of multiple punctures, sorta like Barrage. If you use a rapier, you would do multiple thrusts in a cone. It could maybe be a new melee channeling skill where the thrusts become faster the longer you hold it. It could be too big of a change, but it's not like anyone even uses the current puncture skill.