Puncture

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keyarchan wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

There are projectile attacks and there are projectile spells. "Projectile" is not limited to certain kinds of skills, it's simply a method of causing damage that can be used by skills of any type.

Melee, however, is fundamentally a subset of attack. Melee is only defined in terms of attacking with melee weapons. There isn't any concept of melee outside of attacks in the game. Since DoT fundamentally cannot be attack damage, it also cannot be melee damage.

So does this mean that increased projectile damage would increase the burn damage from ignites made by projectiles, such as projectile attacks with fire damage and spells like Fireball and other projectile spells converted to fire damage.

I know this question is not about Puncture but your answer isn't limited to Puncture(it seems) so I just thought I'd ask.

That does work, and has for a WHILE. Odd, but it does. It also affects Explosive Arrow damage, oddly, and the Ignite from that.

You guys find that odd because you stick too much with the words, and not the logic/math. Just rename projectile damage "set A" and melee physical damage "set B", with set A having the propreties of being generic and an higher set of "set B", which has the propreties of being a specific subset of a bigger set (attacks or set C, which is also partially a subset of "set A") and having therefore a smaller scope than "set A". Projectile damage can scale so much type of damage sources because it's really generic (elemental, physical, attacks, spells,...), when melee physical damage clearly does a more specific job. Seen like that, it's not odd that projectile damage scales DoT like burning or bleeding.

Ran some theoretical numbers. And for bows, concentrated effect rain of arrows, with a tora's bow is better for puncturing than puncture... I think it might be over nerfed.

On some positive feedback. The skill works. It does about as much damage as poison arrow cloud, a lot less when they're standing still, and a bit more when the mob is mooving. So I'm still using it. You can probably make it work... But it's no longer a One crit puncture and the boss is dead. So that's good.

I still think it's underwhelming.
Cheers.

The patch notes read 'Puncture now bleeds for 10% of hit damage at all levels. It also gains more increased physical damage per level.' but so far the physical damage values seem to be the exact same as before. Am I missing something in the skill description?

Also I concur with dzjaulah, I'm still using the skill but it feels very unrewarding now especially after taking Bloodletting from the skill tree. I think the movement based bleed was hit too hard.

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dzjaulah wrote:

Run some theoretical numbers. And for bows, concentrated effect rain of arrows, with a tora's bow is better for puncturing than puncture... I think it might be over nerfed.

On some positive feedback. The skill works. It does about as much damage as poison arrow cloud, a lot less when they're standing still, and a bit more when the mob is mooving. So I'm still using it. You can probably make it work... But it's no longer a One crit puncture and the boss is dead. So that's good.

I still think it's underwhelming.
Cheers.

My issue with Puncture isn't that it is completely useless, but that it is no longer useful for what I wanted it for; single target sniping. Right now it is faster for me to just use Tornado Shot on a boss than to bother with puncture. Puncture isn't a main skill; it is by design NOT an AOE attack. But if you can't kill faster than AOE attack on a single target, what is it for?

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VallenChaosValiant wrote:

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dzjaulah wrote:

Run some theoretical numbers. And for bows, concentrated effect rain of arrows, with a tora's bow is better for puncturing than puncture... I think it might be over nerfed.

On some positive feedback. The skill works. It does about as much damage as poison arrow cloud, a lot less when they're standing still, and a bit more when the mob is mooving. So I'm still using it. You can probably make it work... But it's no longer a One crit puncture and the boss is dead. So that's good.

I still think it's underwhelming.
Cheers.

My issue with Puncture isn't that it is completely useless, but that it is no longer useful for what I wanted it for; single target sniping. Right now it is faster for me to just use Tornado Shot on a boss than to bother with puncture. Puncture isn't a main skill; it is by design NOT an AOE attack. But if you can't kill faster than AOE attack on a single target, what is it for?

DOT is a very strong mechanic. It is strong because running around and dodgeing hits is strong.
With tornado shooting you might get more dps, but you're standing still, so there's risk vs reward. With poison arrow, and fire trap, the mobs can just move out of the area and not take damage, so you need to re "cast" them, and poison arrow takes lot of mana, while traps have a limit.
But with puncture, you just need to score a hit, than the mob is bleeding.

So I puncture is balanced imo, in terms of risk vs reward. For 1 hit you deal free damage for 5 seconds, and you're free to run around, use other skills to deal damage. It also prevents energy shield recharge, and you're rewarded for running around, because of the bleeding on the move.
I also think thought that it's underwhelming when you compare it to the damage of other skills.

That's my opinion on why they nerfed the skill and what is it for.

Some positive feedback that I could think of. Puncture has always been better than other bleed causing effects. But not any more, if you have a weapon that causes bleeding, than it's out-shined by many skills. It might give some favor back to the skill if the damage while standing still would scale up to the level of mobile damage. And then the favor of the puncture would be that it bleeds targets that aren't moving.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

I guess in the end though, the only thing left to find out is clarification on weapon-specific nodes. Are there any weapon-specific nodes that increase bleed damage on puncture (bow, dagger, etc nodes?) and if so, which ones apply and which ones do not? What about mods on gear itself? Does x-x% increased physical damage on an amulet double dip?

I still haven't gotten clarification on any of these questions, I need to know which of these work and don't work because I need to know where to put my points for a build I'm working on.

Mainly I need to know if physical damage with x weapon nodes double dip, IE: increased physical damage with swords (or daggers, or claws, etc).

I would think the answer should be yes, but if there's anything I've learned from this thread it's that nothing is the way I think it is regarding puncture.

Quick question, but I couldn't seem to find an answer.
Does Puncture work with Extra Gore? Meaning when their bleeding esp when moving, do they spew more blood then they normally would?

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YohSL wrote:

Quick question, but I couldn't seem to find an answer.
Does Puncture work with Extra Gore? Meaning when their bleeding esp when moving, do they spew more blood then they normally would?

Should be easy to test, if I have time later I'll try