Hatred
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The aura costs way too much mana for its benefit.
Generally, the further you progress in the game, the more damage you gain by just adding fixed amounts of damage, because you already have huge damage multipliers. Attackspeed, increased melee/dualwield/sword/1hand/2hand damage, critical hit chance, crit dmg multiplier, all these multipliers make it so that adding a small amount of fixed damage is scaled up tremendously. On my old duel wield frenzy duelist, 15 phsyical damage on a ring would scale up to 4000 dps in my character screen. These fixed damage auras only reserve a fixed amount of mana, but they grant multiple times the damage that an aura like hatred grants, because adding another 15% on an already existing +1500% damage modifier is worth almost nothing in comparison. If anything, the fixed damage auras need to reserve a % of your mana instead of aureas like hatred, but i wouldnt recommend that either. Just buff auras like hatred and make them only reserve a fixed amount of mana aswell. Its counter intuitive at first, but if you think about it, and do the calculations, you come to the conclusion that these auras cost way too much mana for their benefit in comparison to auras that grant fixed amounts of damage. Im pretty sure you guys at GGG gave auras that increase players stats by a percentage the percentage based mana reservation for balance reasons, but you probably didnt think it through enough. Im almost 100% certain that all the percentage based auras (like haste and hatred) will benefit the character less than an aura like wrath, even though they reserve a lot more mana. Do the math yourself, or wait until i have access to all the skillgems and leveled up my ranger enough, then i will do the maths myself and present them here, and im pretty sure haste and hatred are gonna be amongst the worst. Last edited by gh0un on Aug 6, 2012, 1:05:21 PM
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"I totally agree with you, and I've tried to express this sentiment before, but the devs are probably basing their calculations on level 80 or 90 characters with perfectly modded items. It's simply the only sane explanation for why Discipline and Wrath can be so cheap while Haste and and Determination are so expensive. The bottom line is that every DPS stat in the game scales with every other DPS stat. That means that a rough rule of thumb is that the DPS stat you have the least of is the best, regardless of whether it's "flat" or "percentage". This is why I have such a hard time understanding why the devs would would try and argue that "percentage"-based auaras are so much better than "flat" auras that their cost should be so high. It inherently assumes that you have far fewer percentage-based bonuses than flat bonuses, making the percentage-based ones most optimal and there's no reason to assume that...unless the character's flat damage far outstripped the flat damage bonuses from the aura, which implies that the devs are balancing around players being much higher level. Last edited by Strill on Aug 7, 2012, 5:50:28 AM
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" I dont think so, i rather think they didnt put too much thought into it, because percentage increase -> percentage mana reserve makes sense at first glance. My dual wield frenzy duelist had over 145k permanent dps, and i was just lvl 74. Even with such huge amounts of dps, percentage based increases wouldnt give me the same increase in damage than just adding 10 fixed damage because my base dps was much lower. I was trying to create the perfect damage ring, and while experimenting with that, i came to the conclusion that 10% attackspeed is not worth the same as just straight up 10 extra damage, because my modifiers were already so friggin high. As i said, i literally saw my dps increase by 4k+ after i exchanged my old ring with a new one that had 15 physical damage over it, nothing else. Basically i had a 25000%+ modifier. The modifiers stack to insane values once you stack up enough different types of them, because they are multiplicative to each other, but that also means that increasing that modifier by a measly additional few % is not gonna yield the same dps increase than just adding raw physical damage, and i had that confirmed with my rings. The only percentage based increase stat that was still granting a huge dps increase was additional attackspeed on the weapon, because that was lowering the base attack time on the weapon, it was basically another new stack of attackspeed that is working multiplicatively with the basic attackspeed you get, and since i didnt have much of that yet, i would see huge damage increase out of that. I dont think haste creates a new stack, it adds on top of your normal attackspeed increase (that you get from nodes and such), and therefore you will already have a lot of that, meaning that incremental physical damage increases will surpass that pretty fast. Last edited by gh0un on Aug 7, 2012, 6:06:57 AM
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How are the interactions with allies in terms of how much cold damage is added? The skill says
" Does that mean //If the end result is you gain 20 cold damage from the aura alone, then your allies gain 20 cold damage. //Your allies gain x% cold damage of their base attack. | |
" You guys aren't really thinking it through. Let's put up Anger and Hatred. Lvl 1 hatred gives 15% of your physical damage as cold damage. Lvl 1 Anger gives 3-5 added fire damage to attacks. Let's say you have a clean DPS (of only physical damage) of 4000. 15% of that 4000 gives an additional 60 cold damage with a lvl 1 hatred gem. While Anger gives a measely 3-5 fire damage at lvl 1, no matter how high your physical damage is. Hatred gives me a much bigger boost than Anger. Last edited by Spectruma on Aug 9, 2012, 1:45:42 PM
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A level 1 Anger also probably reserves less of your Mana bulb ;)
" Hatred adds a flat amount of damage, just like Wrath and Anger, but the amount depends on how high your Physical damage is rather than only skill level. With a high Physical damage character, Hatred can add more damage than Anger. With a low damage but high attack speed build, Anger/Wrath adds more damage. Additionally, it's Cold damage, which brings forth crowd control (would be more significant if Cold damage wasn't as easy to obtain from gear). | |
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I have a question about Hatred and support gems. Can I add support gems like Added Chaos Damage and Added Lightning Damage to Hatred and then the aura also applies the other elemental damages or does the game not allow that? I'm guessing it doesn't work but I'm not positive which is why I'm asking.
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Support skills that add damage only add damage to skills that actually deal damage. This can be direct damage, such as with Fireball, or indirect damage such as through Zombies. Anger, Hatred and Wrath do not deal damage, and thus do not benefit.
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I don't know if it's correct to post this here, nor do I know whether this is a known bug, but:
When you cast Hatred and then take the skill gem out of the socket, all effects will still apply (and also be shown in the upper left corner as "active"). This concers the resereved mana as well as the damage bonus. Like this, you can cast the aura, take it off and put another skill in its place, which is very abusable if a lot of support gems are linked. | |
" um... thats known.. people used to make a glove or boots for auras, and take it out. or the gem itself. now people can use weapon swaping instead and level the gems up. |
