Hatred

Strength is actually 1% increased per 5.
And rings come in as part of your base damage.

If 20% of your damage is converted from fire than it likewise would be affected by physical damage mods just as converted cold damage would.
I don't know the order of calculations between conversions and additions though other than that AoF comes after everything else so that glacial hammer for instance would deal 50% cold 50% fire damage. I'm not sure where hatred comes into this compared to the 20% conversion.
Last edited by Umbraal on Apr 24, 2012, 3:08:57 PM
"
Umbraal wrote:
Strength is actually 1% increased per 5.
And rings come in as part of your base damage.

If 20% of your damage is converted from fire than it likewise would be affected by physical damage mods just as converted cold damage would.
I don't know the order of calculations between conversions and additions though other than that AoF comes after everything else so that glacial hammer for instance would deal 50% cold 50% fire damage. I'm not sure where hatred comes into this compared to the 20% conversion.


So you are saying that it should be:
Total Fire Damage = Fire_dmg + .44 * Fire_dmg?
"
IrishKigoi wrote:

Just to clarify and make sure I understand this correctly.

Lets assume
-------------
Weapon dmg : 14-63
STR : 100

Skills and items have given the following modifiers:

+ 32% Physical Damage
+ 12% Elemental Damage
+ 7% Cold Damage

Ring that adds:
2-9 Physical Damage
3-7 Cold Damage


If I read your post correctly the basic rule for each damage source:

1.)Take the intial damage without %increases (Wpn damage, str modifier) This would be the "base" damage.
- Base = 34-83 (STR adds 1 dmg for ever 5 pts if I remember)
Strength provides a % increase to physical melee damage, not additional damage. It's calculated with the other % increases. Added damage from rings is base damage as well, so is included with the weapon damage here.
Totals so far:
16-72 Physical Damage (14-63 + 2-9)
3-7 Cold Damage

"
IrishKigoi wrote:
2.)Divide that damage into categories (i.e. 20% of your damage is Fire damage.)
- Fire_dmg = .2 * Base
- Physical_dmg = .8 * Base
"
IrishKigoi wrote:
3.) Add % Additional Damage i.e. Hatred (NOT % Increase) For this example Physical_dmg will be considered Cold_dmg's src_dmg.
- Cold_dmg = .2 * Physical_dmg (as opposed to .2* Base)
Those are both conversions and happen together, not one after the other. These are modifications to base damage.
"Converts 50% of physical damage to fire" is a conversion which is giving you fire damage based on 50% of your physical, and removing 50% of your physical.
"Adds 30% of physical damage as cold", like on hatred, is doing exactly the same thing except you keep the converted the physical damage as well, it's not removed.
So if 20% of physical damage is converted to fire, and 20% of your physical damage is added as cold damage, then you get cold and fire damage added (from physical) each equal to 20% of the physical (20% of 16-72 is 3-14). You also loose 20% of your physical (so minus 3-14), since it was converted away to fire.
13-58 Base Physical (16-72 - 3-14)
6-21 Cold:
3-7 Base Cold
3-14 Base Cold from physical
3-14 Base Fire from physical
"
IrishKigoi wrote:
4.) Apply percentage increase to each category for % Additional Damage apply % increases that affect the src_dmg.
- Total Fire Damage = 1.12 * Fire_dmg
- Total Physical Damage = Physical_dmg + .32 * Physical_dmg
- Total Cold Damage = Cold_dmg + .51 * Cold_dmg
Since the fire damage, and the non-ring cold damage, are based on your physical damage, modifiers to physical damage also affect them.
100 strength gives a 20% increase to physical damage, so out total modifiers are:
Physical: 52% increase
Cold: 7% increase
Elemental: 12% increase

The physical damage is modified only by physical increase:
13-58 * 1.52 = 20-88
The Cold damage from the ring is just cold damage, so affected by cold and elemental increases:
3-7 * 1.19 (12% + 7% = 19%) = 4-8
The cold damage from physical is affected by all of them:
3-14 * 1.71 (7% + 12% + 52% = 71%) = 5-24
The fire damage is all converted from physical so affected by physical and elemental modifiers:
3-14 * 1.64 (52% + 12% = 64%) = 5-23

So total damage is:
20-88 Physical damage
9-32 Cold Damage (4-8 + 5-24)
5-23 Fire Damage

Note: if there were any applicable % more damage modifiers, those would be applied after all the % increased damage modifiers and apply separately in a multiplicative fashion, rather than adding together like the % increased modifiers.
"
Mark_GGG wrote:
You also loose 20% of your physical (so minus 3-14), since it was converted away to fire.

This method did not occur to me and seems to make the most sense. Waiting to take off the "converted damage" until other calculations were made.

Seems good.
"
Teaboar wrote:
Do reduced mana cost passives effect the mana reserve percentage of this aura, or is it only the reduced reservation percentage passives that effect it?


I'll post this again since I didn't get an answer yet.
"
Teaboar wrote:
"
Teaboar wrote:
Do reduced mana cost passives effect the mana reserve percentage of this aura, or is it only the reduced reservation percentage passives that effect it?


I'll post this again since I didn't get an answer yet.
Skills which reserve a % of mana are affected by the reduced reservation percentage passives, and not by reduced mana cost passives.
Skills which cost/reserve a flat amount of mana are affected by reduced mana cost passives, but not reduced reservation percentage passives
My Duelist was offered two of these as part of the Hillock quest reward on Ruthless.
"
Mark_GGG wrote:
"
Teaboar wrote:
"
Teaboar wrote:
Do reduced mana cost passives effect the mana reserve percentage of this aura, or is it only the reduced reservation percentage passives that effect it?


I'll post this again since I didn't get an answer yet.
Skills which reserve a % of mana are affected by the reduced reservation percentage passives, and not by reduced mana cost passives.
Skills which cost/reserve a flat amount of mana are affected by reduced mana cost passives, but not reduced reservation percentage passives
Just wanted to say, that's incredibly confusing, and I don't think I ever would have figured that out had I not read these forums.
Last edited by Strill on May 19, 2012, 12:20:20 AM
I can activate the aura, then take the skill gem off my gem slot and still have the effect of the added cold damage.
Also at one point in the Chamber of Sins level 1, I would

take 11 points of damage to life everytime I take the Hatred gem off but after portaling back to town it did not happen anymore.

Both tested on Cruel difficulty.
Hatred seems very weak compared to the other 2 damage adding auras. That, combined with the flat mana reservation, do not lend themselves to making a well balanced skill.

Spoiler
Here's my character's applicable stats (leaving out attacks/second and focusing solely on damage per hit):

Bow:
  • 23-67 Physical Damage
  • 29-53 Cold Damage
  • 8-86 Lightning Damage


Gloves:
  • 12-27 Fire Damage
  • 3-63 Lightning Damage


Quiver:
  • 1-7 Lightning Damage
  • 2-4 Fire Damage
  • 3-79 Lightning Damage


Jewelry:
  • 3-39 Lightning Damage
  • 23% Increased Elemental Damage
  • 4-11 Cold Damage
  • 2-39 Lightning Damage
  • 1-3 Physical Damage


Summary (from equipment):
  • Physical Damage: 24-70
  • Cold Damage: 33-64
  • Fire Damage: 13-31
  • Lightning Damage: 20-313
  • Elemental Damage Increase: 23%


From Passive Skills I have:
60% Increased Elemental Damage
45% Increased Cold Damage
45% Increased Lightning Damage
21% Increased Physical Damage
51% Increased Projectile Damage
Iron Grip with 100 strength: 20% Increased Physical Damage

I use all 3 elemental damage auras:
Anger: 30-49 additional fire damage
Wrath: 5-82 additional lightning damage
Hatred: 34% of physical damage as additional cold damage

For the purposes of this calculation, let's assume I'm just using a regular attack, nothing fancy.

1 arrow deals (auras off):
  • Physical Damage (Affected by Increased Physical, Increased Projectile, Increased Strength): (24-70) * (1+21%+51%+20%) = 46.08-134.4
  • Cold Damage (Increased Elemental (gear,skills), Increased Cold, Increased Projectile): = (33-64) * (1+23%+60%+45%+51%) = 92.07-178.56
  • Fire Damage (Increased Elemental (gear,skills), Increased Projectile) = 14-31 * (1+23%+60%+51%) = 32.76-72.54
  • Lightning Damage (Increased Elemental (gear,skills), Increased Lightning, Increased Projectile): = 20-313 * (1+23%+60%+45%+51%) = 55.8-873.27
  • Total Damage: 226.71-1258.77


Now with Auras on, we have all of the same above damage, plus:
  • Anger (Elemental, Projectile): 30-49 * (1+23%+60%+51%) = 70.2-114.66
  • Wrath (Elemental, Lightning, Projectile): 5-82 * (1+23%+60%+45%+51%) = 13.95-228.78
  • Hatred (Elemental, Cold, Projectile, Physical) = 26.112-76.16
    • 34% of Physical = 24-70 * 0.34 = 8.16-23.8
    • Increased by Elemental, Cold, Projectile and Physical = 8.16-23.8 * (1+23%+60%+45%+51%+21%+20%) = 26.112-76.16


So, using the same level auras, my Anger aura adds 70-114 (92) Fire damage, Wrath adds 13-228 (121) Lightning damage, but Hatred only adds 26-76 (51) Cold damage.

So, my Lightning damage is around 30% higher than Fire damage, I attribute that to having Arcing Blows. But my Cold damage is 55% of my Fire damage, and 42% of Lightning damage, and that's with the Ice Bite passive.

With me being "specialized" into cold damage, Hatred is quite a let down. It would appear that in order to truly benefit from Hatred, compared to either of the other 2 auras, you would need to be heavily invested in physical damage increases or you would need a weapon that deals around 2.5x more physical damage than the one I'm using.

Is this gem meant to be used by high physical damage marauders? If so, the dex-int requirement doesn't work. If it's meant to only be used by high physical damage weapons, that is again counter-intuitive because it is adding elemental damage. People that want to do elemental damage specialize in elemental damage increases, and their skills and gear do not lend themselves towards high physical damage.

(If Mark or anyone at GGG wants to test the above out, you'll need to reinvest skill points to pick up Iron Grip and Master Fletcher to attain the 20% and 21% physical damage increases)
TehHammer is not a crime!

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