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I am running spiders with redemption sentries tier 16 cards, all works fine but with the weapon swap for the bosses my boss damage is really bad.

I wonder if Holy Flame totem may proc EE?

"

kayella wrote:

How would this compare to 2x renewal and 4x vegeful+first?

I just copied my clusters to a second outer socket and Hatred now gives 96% phys gained as cold + 67% more cold damage.


If we take 1000 base damage and 75% conversion:

250 phys + 750 cold

Boosted Hatred gain:
1710 cold (750 + 960)

Boosted Hatred more:
2856 (1710 x 1.67)

Total damage:
250 phys + 2856 cold = 3106

Double damage chance:
3106 x 1.3 (2x renewal, grave pact, temple wand)

= 4037

So the overall is 4x more damage.


I'm not sure if my maths is correct, though.

Your math is correct, but with 6 Renewal, damage can also get boost by Hatred

And how many % of aura effect you have to reach 96% added cold with Hatred?

Lv20 Hatred is 25% added cold, 18% more cold damage

With only Generosity, we have 39% aura effect
=> Hatred now gives 25 * 1.39 = 34.75% added cold, 18 * 3.23= 25% more cold
Using your assumption:
cold damage = (750 + 347) * 1.25 more = 1371
physical damage = 250
total: 1371 + 250 = 1621

With 4x vegeful+first, we have 46*4=184% aura effect, plus 39% from Generosity
=>223% aura effect
=> Hatred now gives 25*3.23=80.75% added cold, 18*3.23=58.14% more cold
cold damage = (750 + 807) * 1.58 more = 2460
physical damage = 250
total: 2460 + 250= 2710

-----------------------------------

Scenario 1: 6 Renewal + 2 Vicious Bite
Base damage: 1621
2.432 more damage as caculated in my previous post
=>1621 * 2.432 = 3942

Scenario 2: 2 Renewal + 6 Vicious Bite
Base damage: 1621
3.18 more damage as caculated in my previous post
=>1621 * 3.18 = 5154

Scenario 3: 2 Renewal + 2 Vicious Bite + 4 (vengeful+first)
Base damage: 2710
1.2 (from 2 renewal) * 1.52 (from 2 vicious bite) = 1.824
=>2710 * 1.824 = 4943

With aura medium cluster, damage is pretty close to Vicious Bite, but we need 2 passive point for vengeful+first, meanwhile you only need 1 point for Vicious Bite

Also, if anyone want to stack crit, Vengeful Commander + Precise Commander is better than Vengeful Commander + First Among Equals

If my math is correct :D
Renewal gives..............10% more damage
Vengeful+First gives.....14% more damage
Vengeful+Precise gives 16% more damage
Vicious Bite gives.........17% more damage


All caculation is based on 3 power charges. You NEED 3 power charges to stack crit on spectre, without them, better go with aura cluster instead

I have an extremely hard time surviving with this build ... pretty much everything pops me ...

Any recommandations? I am at 6k life

nice

GOOD!

Hi Kay!

What gems would you recommend for using RS with Spiders?

"

exxidus wrote:

I have an extremely hard time surviving with this build ... pretty much everything pops me ...

Any recommandations? I am at 6k life

Get max block with Bone ofering and Rumi flask
Stay behind your minions

Most important: move constantly, position is the king. Deli have a lot of on-death effect that can kill tanky character with 1 pop :D

"

H0X9 wrote:

Your math is correct, but with 6 Renewal, damage can also get boost by Hatred

And how many % of aura effect you have to reach 96% added cold with Hatred?

Sorry I made a mistake, it's 92% gained. But that is still more than your 80% calculation. I'm not sure why POB says 92/67. All I did was copy my jewels to the left side like this. Build/tree is untouched. By the way, I use Awakened Gen (51% increased effect).








So, I think we should just use POB's number?

"

H0X9 wrote:

With 4x vegeful+first, we have 46*4=184% aura effect, plus 39% from Generosity
=>223% aura effect
=> Hatred now gives 25*3.23=80.75% added cold, 18*3.23=58.14% more cold
cold damage = (750 + 807) * 1.58 more = 2460
physical damage = 250
total: 2460 + 250= 2710

cold damage = (750 + 920) * 1.67 more = 2789
physical damage = 250
total: 2789 + 250= 3039


Then, secnario 3 also changes:

"

H0X9 wrote:

Scenario 3: 2 Renewal + 2 Vicious Bite + 4 (vengeful+first)
Base damage: 2710
1.2 (from 2 renewal) * 1.52 (from 2 vicious bite) = 1.824
=>2710 * 1.824 = 4943

Scenario 3: 2 Renewal + 2 Vicious Bite + 4 (vengeful+first)
Base damage: 3039
1.2 (from 2 renewal) * 1.52 (from 2 vicious bite) = 1.824
=>3039 * 1.824 = 5542

The number seems higher than vicious bite.


Also, I think the cost is important for this comparison.

5-passive medium only costs 1c and some alt/regal. Or about 25c if you buy it rolled. So 100c + 2x renewal large.

For vicious bit, you need megalomaniac at 4ex each. So 16ex + 2x renewal large.

Hatred scaling is 15.2ex (aboout 2100c) cheaper.

"

With aura medium cluster, damage is pretty close to Vicious Bite, but we need 2 passive point for vengeful+first, meanwhile you only need 1 point for Vicious Bite

Is vicious bite always at the start of the cluster? Can it be away from thee start? Maybe it needs 1 travel passive to reach?

"

tarrgoth wrote:

Hi Kay!

What gems would you recommend for using RS with Spiders?

Do you follow my hatred stacking update?

For mapping:
Raise Spectre, Minion Damage, Elemental Damage, Pierce, LMP, Lesser Poison.

For endgame bossing (UE, Sirus, etc):
Raise Spectre, Minion Damage, Elemental Damage, Pierce, Hypo, Vicious Proj.

Don't forget poison kills count as your kill, so it will proc the life gained on kill effect from jewels and flask.

"

Zaph_Beeblebrox wrote:

I am running spiders with redemption sentries tier 16 cards, all works fine but with the weapon swap for the bosses my boss damage is really bad.

I wonder if Holy Flame totem may proc EE?

Yes it works, but it cannot give curse.

The weapon swap idea gives your spectres 65% damage and 5% DD (temple wand). This is to help when you don't have spiders or they despawn.

If you have a str, int or str/int base body armour. You might want to try Redemption Knights instead of Sentry.

They are a fast running melee spectre so they match well with spiders! They also have an aoe attack. You can even keep them in boss kill mode with these gems:



I actually use them in EB & MoM and can do 100% Delirium T16 and Simulacrum deathless.