ALL HAIL PRESIDENT TRUMP

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Turtledove wrote:

His guess was perhaps a million lies by the end of his term not one million now.

Politifact does not try to count ALL lies. They do a fact check sometimes when requested or when they think it is a more interesting lie. Many Trump lies are repeat of the same lie over and over and over again. I don't think Politifact keeps track of those either.

I was thinking around 1,000,000 lifetime total :)

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The_Impeacher wrote:

I was thinking around 1,000,000 lifetime total :)

That's quite a bit, but I doubt you're understanding how often people lie. I'd personally estimate that the average American man lies 150,000 times per lifetime.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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The_Impeacher wrote:

I was thinking around 1,000,000 lifetime total :)

That's quite a bit, but I doubt you're understanding how often people lie. I'd personally estimate that the average American man lies 150,000 times per lifetime.

According to this study (self identified lies) most of the lies told are from a small few people.

over 18 the average is 2 lies per day
13 to 17 the average is 3 lies per day

So assuming 2 lies per day for 80 years that works out to be almost 57,000 lies in a lifetime for the average person. Which is actually amazingly close to your estimate, I'd say, especially if we assume that number of self identified lies per day might be on the low side.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/05/lie-average-frequency-age-behavior-quiz/

Trump really is a pathological liar. He lies more often than the average politician and way way more repeats of the same lies over and over again. That Washington Post article mentioned something like some lies being repeated as many as 300 times, IIRC. Who is he lying to? I'd say he is lying primarily to his supporters. He knows but probably doesn't care that others don't generally believe his lies.

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deathflower wrote:

You are stuck with them for life.

This is the real insight, you know. People make their mistakes, lie about things, make hotheaded decisions and have harsh judgments.

Then, years gone by, one begins to realize nothing is really gone and it all comes back in your life at some point. Life is goddamn long and you live to see many of your past errors bringing their toxic fruit. So, forgiving ourselves and others isn't an act of charity but a sound economical thinking. At some point limiting damage becomes more important than preserving a false pretense of honor. Else we fail and our political system will too. Honesty should be valued much higher than honor.

For example, we had a national talk show tonight in Finland where this guy was answering publicly to some issues concerning his past social media activities. He was just a week ago elected to our parlament as a first time representative:

https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Antisemitism/Finnish-MP-under-fire-for-comparing-Israel-to-ISIS-588084

In fact, I believe his remorse was real. Electoral base might not but I do, for a simple reason: I've done my fair share of harsh judgments myself and the guy is clearly intelligent enough to understand his own story. Not only intelligent enough to understand his own story but also intelligent enough to put it into a larger political context.
My mistakes are not similar to what he did -I've never been antisemitic or racist for that matter- but I don't think that's the point (me as a scandinavian and having no roots in middle east anyway). Our biases differ wildly and that's how conflicts are escalated in the first place. It's a group thinking thing. Everyone errs, I distrust people who can't show their fair share of misjudgment. This is because human race is only partially conscious. Its intellectual differences to other vertebrates are much less profound than it likes to think they are.

I guess this all should be obvious to anyone with a hint of self-understanding, yet public space acts as if it weren't.

Edit: I find it ironic that Kenneth Sikorski in Jerusalem Post criticizes finns for 'having a dialogue – any dialogue, regardless of who is on the opposite side of the table'. They should know -they are living in Middle East with nuclear weapons and we are living in a peaceful country next to Russia. I wouldn't change places with them if they ask me.

A new false/misleading statement by a Democrat on Charlottesville. Castro (paraphrasing) said, "Trump failed to condemn racism in Charlottesville." (I actually am not positive that Trump condemned racism. He may have only condemned hate and white nationalists/nazis.) Which is worse, this statement by Castro or the statement by Trump that Democrats want to give birth to a baby, wrap the baby in a blanket, then mother and doctor discuss whether or not the baby should be murdered? Tough call, I'd say that it's reasonably possible that Castro is making an honest mistake but almost impossible to think Trump is making an honest mistake. Trump's lie is an attack on millions of people. Trump's lie is also much more likely to lead to violence. Trump seems to really love riling up the right and making crazies want to go murder someone.

Not to excuse Castro's statement but I find Trump's insult to me and fellow Democrats to be particularly disgusting. On the other hand I'm not sure what percentage of Trump's base would even believe this lie though? Does any Trump supporters in this thread believe Trump's statement? Do any Trump hater's in this thread believe Castro's lie/misleading statement to be true?

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Turtledove wrote:

A new false/misleading statement by a Democrat on Charlottesville. Castro (paraphrasing) said, "Trump failed to condemn racism in Charlottesville." (I actually am not positive that Trump condemned racism. He may have only condemned hate and white nationalists/nazis.)

While he didn't explicitly condemn racism, he condemned both neo-nazis and white nationalists, which kinda implies condemning racism; furthermore, the noteworthy victim was a white woman.

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Turtledove wrote:

Which is worse, this statement by Castro or the statement by Trump that Democrats want to give birth to a baby, wrap the baby in a blanket, then mother and doctor discuss whether or not the baby should be murdered? Tough call, I'd say that it's reasonably possible that Castro is making an honest mistake but almost impossible to think Trump is making an honest mistake. Trump's lie is an attack on millions of people.

Both were media hoaxes, and very similar. I saw a video of Northram's abortion comments maliciously edited to drop important context, and I was hoaxed for a little less than a week. I think it's unfair to assume Trump knew it was a lie, but also perhaps oversympathetic to assume he didn't know; the best position is to remain uncommitted on whether he knew or not, until evidence presents itself (might never happen). I think the Charlottesville hoax had far broader reach, and had a more sinister effect: poisoning American attitudes towards a sitting President regarding fascism is a little worse than poisoning American attitudes towards a sitting Governor regarding abortion. That said, both were similarly constructed hoaxes. I guess it comes down to whether you judge "worst" by construction (equal), impact (Charlottesville was worse), or a mix (still Charlottesville).

You can trust neither side.

Trump's psychopathic rally 'speech' was Trump in the raw. He's a criminal.

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The_Impeacher wrote:

He's a criminal.

The Mueller report stated that they did not find evidence sufficient to conclude the President committed a crime. So you're in tinfoil land.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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The_Impeacher wrote:

He's a criminal.

The Mueller report stated that they did not find evidence sufficient to conclude the President committed a crime. So you're in tinfoil land.

The Mueller report explained explicitly WHY that was, but you haven't read it.

Witnesses lied, refused to cooperate, destroyed evidence, took the 5th and on and on. It's all in there.

There's a LOAD of evidence in there. If Trump weren't illegitimately president and protected by a broken DOJ policy, he'd spend the balance of his life in prison for the 10 incidents of obstruction alone.

The solution for an unidictable (because of a DOJ policy) president is impeachment.

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The_Impeacher wrote:

The solution for an unidictable (because of a DOJ policy) president is impeachment.

double tinfoil hat.