Trade Manifesto

most issues with trade is with the players. price fixing, and the worst is price changing. nothing like finally getting in contact with someone after 20 or so messages only for them to say, it was the wrong price. regardless of the price of an item, what i list it for is the price i sell it for. mistakes or not.

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spaceace7373 wrote:

regardless of the price of an item, what i list it for is the price i sell it for. mistakes or not.

Very true, listing for sale should be binding. If someone choses to buy your item, you should NOT be able to decline for any reason. This would get rid of price fixers in one simple move.
As a first change, I would just move the Trade system in-game and make the Buy button a hard commitment action. For example, if you click Buy on an item listed for 1ex and there is 1ex in your inventory/stash, that 1ex is locked into the trade system and so is the item that you clicked buy on. But, to prevent automation, I would limit the number of buying actions to once per X amount of mobs killed, or per finished map (boss kill) or other conditions that fit best.
Also, we NEED an anti-cheat software embedded in PoE client that would instantly temp ban accounts for botting.

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hdvlad wrote:

Very true, listing for sale should be binding. If someone choses to buy your item, you should NOT be able to decline for any reason. This would get rid of price fixers in one simple move.
As a first change, I would just move the Trade system in-game and make the Buy button a hard commitment action. For example, if you click Buy on an item listed for 1ex and there is 1ex in your inventory/stash, that 1ex is locked into the trade system and so is the item that you clicked buy on. But, to prevent automation, I would limit the number of buying actions to once per X amount of mobs killed, or per finished map (boss kill) or other conditions that fit best.
Also, we NEED an anti-cheat software embedded in PoE client that would instantly temp ban accounts for botting.

what really needs to be done is a trade database reset every league. every item listed gets removed when the servers update to the new league. this alone will help the trade system massively. when i search for an item, a lot it them are listings over a year old. in most cases, my message to buy gets ignored. try again the next day... same old listing, same player, same ignored message. those players need to remove the listing but don't. GGG won't reset trade for what reason? fear? afraid they will upset a handful of players? with what GGG does to players as a whole, you wouldn't think they would even care that much. when the older watchstones were removed, i , and i'm sure others, lost about 200ex worth of hard earned investment, time in trade, time farming just for those watchstones alone. item drops are bad. rng is bad. the game is quickly becoming not fun anymore. don't get me wrong. i really enjoy playing poe but GGG has a "vision" that most players do not share. take the "alt" viewing of dropped items for an example. who thought it was a good idea to take that away? did they think it would get more items picked up? i know i personally pick up far less now because i can't be bothered to stop, pick it up, look at it, only to drop it again because like most drops, it's normally junk anyway. we don't have enough options ingame to lower settings we don't need or like. for one, i'd like to turn off all mtx for the players that have the "look at me and all the money i spent" mentality. however, there is an addon that will do exactly that but you can get banned for using it. it's not cheating. it just eliminates all that is truly not relevant to playing the game. bots can be controlled easily but i honestly think GGG is behind some of them. you would think that a company that can put this on their website,

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Grinding Gear Games was founded in November 2006 in Auckland, New Zealand. Its founding members come from various countries and have a selection of diverse backgrounds ranging from artificial intelligence and software security to industrial design to professional tournament game play.

would be more than capable of stopping bots. bots have patterns and routines that are programmed into them. hell, GGG could buy one, look it over, and say, "GOT YA". but they don't or won't. when updates break the game for some players, GGG is more focused on mtx sales and creating the new content for the next league that fixing what they thought was a good idea can wait. you broke it, revert the changes and figure out what and how it broke. simple. anyway, i'm done ranting for now. take it as you will

I have a feeling someone might have suggested this already, but here goes. I don't have the time to read this entire post.

The fact that we're expected to waste a portal while mapping in order to make a trade and hope the person doesn't flake out and leave without making the trade is a little bonkers to me. Sick of people wasting time because they don't know what they want. That's what real life is for... people wasting other people's time.

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Durf wrote:

I have a feeling someone might have suggested this already, but here goes. I don't have the time to read this entire post.

The fact that we're expected to waste a portal while mapping in order to make a trade and hope the person doesn't flake out and leave without making the trade is a little bonkers to me. Sick of people wasting time because they don't know what they want. That's what real life is for... people wasting other people's time.

I'm sorry, but what? No one anywhere is forcing you to do anything.

When I message someone for a trade and I want their item, and they are in a map and ask me to hold on and wait, I wait. I never expect someone to stop what they are doing and come out of a map or Lab and trade with me that instant. And vice versa if someone wants something I am selling. If someone is that impatient and they go buy an item from somewhere else, then so be it. They can shuffle off. I am NOT going to stop doing what I am doing just to make a trade, unless I feel like it. If they can't wait a minute or two, good riddance.

GGG Grinding Grinding Grinding

Dear Developers, although I share your point of view on making a sophisticated trading system that is on par with the game, you cannot satisfy all player bases. I do not play 12+ hours per session, I do not live in this game, so the current trading system is just not for me. Wonder how many people are like me in terms of statistics in this game, how many people are deterred by the current trading system vs those who like it or just endorse it. And again, how could you know what another system can be like in a game like this when you have not tried it, improved it or perfected it?

I have been put off by trading, having to wait for hours for a response, being ignored, being scammed by being told it was listed in the wrong price. Your point of view of your trading concept is grandiose and at the same time disappointing. As with so many things.

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kathiki wrote:

Dear Developers, although I share your point of view on making a sophisticated trading system that is on par with the game, you cannot satisfy all player bases. I do not play 12+ hours per session, I do not live in this game, so the current trading system is just not for me. Wonder how many people are like me in terms of statistics in this game, how many people are deterred by the current trading system vs those who like it or just endorse it.

I feel you, I'm in almost the same situation. The trading system just puts me off in this game, to the point where I just quit after having to spend hours alt-tabbed, trying to buy gear upgrades. Too many price fixers, players that don't bother to respond.

In my opinion, when you play a game, you should not have to alt-tab for anything related to that game. It breaks the immersion and the mood. Trade should be in-game and we should have price statistics in-game, even wiki for items and mods should be in-game. It's a shame they focus more on selling MTX than modernizing this ancient system.

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hdvlad wrote:

I feel you, I'm in almost the same situation. The trading system just puts me off in this game, to the point where I just quit after having to spend hours alt-tabbed, trying to buy gear upgrades. Too many price fixers, players that don't bother to respond.

In my opinion, when you play a game, you should not have to alt-tab for anything related to that game. It breaks the immersion and the mood. Trade should be in-game and we should have price statistics in-game, even wiki for items and mods should be in-game. It's a shame they focus more on selling MTX than modernizing this ancient system.

the secret is, ggg doesn't really want to encourage you to either sell nor buy items.

selling items just cloques the database with stuff and lowers the price for items cause demand is non existing until you lowball others.

buying items is just spoiling your progress, finding 2ex and buying endgame gear and gems lets you jump the progression of several days worth of playtime.

they made prices for advertised items non binding so you can correct mistakes and it also encourages people to make fake offers which prevents tools from automatically retrieving exact item prices.

While i agree that oversimplifying the trading system may lead to market flop (i even observed such scenario in one other game), i also agree that the trade system here needs improvement
I'll be quick:
1. Not everyone may appraise the item. Is this or that item i found good or bad? "Learn the game!" they say. But you see, even if you learned the game and know that your item costs 45c, you still need someone on the other end who knows that too. Moreover: how do you even know that? How these xxresists+yylife+zzelemdamage translates into 45c exactly?

2. So, right now top or very good players sell things to each other.
So what about noobs?
Imagine, you're playing the league mechanic and you see dropping uniques. wow factor is great. but then you understand that not only your class/build doesn't need them no one does.
i once set about 40 uniques for 1c each. played for a day - not a single offer. Moreover:in the next day i set them for 3-4 orb of alteration each. the result was the same as before - not a single offer.

3. changing the price is not bad per se. but the current system encourages griefing. eg. the worst side in us all. Imagine, i can set a good item for 2c and not even respond and read comments from disappointed players. I can even make a video with these comments and upload on youtube and monetize on it. Not everyone may resist it.
Damn, even Frodo put the ring on in the end.

Even though it's great to fix glaring issues, trade itself is not what makes the game blindingly easy, power creep is.

The top end is immeasurably stronger than the strongest content. The top player power needs to be brought down significantly if we want the game to be about skill and not only currency.