[3.x - Discontinued for now] Burning Spectres - Torch the Atlas - HC Shaper, Elder, Uber Atziri

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LaplaceNoMa wrote:

Why do so many people use Whirling blades instead of Shield Charge? I was under the impression that WB becomes better than SC only at extremely high amounts of attack speed...

//edit: while we're at this topic, which is the best damage curse there is? Usually when talking about fire damage, elemental weakness outperforms flammability if you're not invested in burning damage, but in our case it's different. Or, perhaps, vulnerability outperforms both of those?

As for the curse, I think vulnerability is best. We already have scorching ray (-24% resist) and EE (-50% resist).

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lostcoaster wrote:

As for the curse, I think vulnerability is best. We already have scorching ray (-24% resist) and EE (-50% resist).

So what? Resist can be lowered under 0%. Vulnerability can be better only if monster has much uncapped resistance, coz Equlibrium lowers capped resistance, but curses and scorching ray not.

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lostcoaster wrote:

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LaplaceNoMa wrote:

Why do so many people use Whirling blades instead of Shield Charge? I was under the impression that WB becomes better than SC only at extremely high amounts of attack speed...

//edit: while we're at this topic, which is the best damage curse there is? Usually when talking about fire damage, elemental weakness outperforms flammability if you're not invested in burning damage, but in our case it's different. Or, perhaps, vulnerability outperforms both of those?

As for the curse, I think vulnerability is best. We already have scorching ray (-24% resist) and EE (-50% resist).

Vulner is 33% more DOT while Flam may reach more than 40% -res easily. I'm not sure why Vulner is better in normal circumstances (Flam is a sure win in +res map). Probably at lower level, yeah, since Vulner's 33% more DOT is already at gem level 1.

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konigreich wrote:

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lostcoaster wrote:

As for the curse, I think vulnerability is best. We already have scorching ray (-24% resist) and EE (-50% resist).

So what? Resist can be lowered under 0%. Vulnerability can be better only if monster has much uncapped resistance, coz Equlibrium lowers capped resistance, but curses and scorching ray not.

Just pulled out a spreadsheet and did a bunch of math to figure this out... and the results are not what I expected.

TLDR: Use vulnerability and a double dyadus AG for everything except shaper. If you're not using AG, use flammability. Regardless, use flammability for Shaper.

Against normal mobs - where it probably doesn't matter much, they die so damn fast, usually long before Scorching Ray gets to stack up it's 24% resistance penalty, we get 6% more damage using vulnerability over flammability. If we're using a double dyadus AG, that widens out even more, to 16%. Again, not that useful, as the mobs are usually dead too fast to matter, cursed or not.

Against bosses, like for instance, Atziri, who has 30% elemental resistance and 60% curse reduction, flammability gives us 4% extra damage over vulnerability - unless you are using a double dyadus AG, in which case vulnerability gives us an extra 3% over flammability.

Shaper is a special case, as he has 40% resists, and an 80% curse reduction. Flammability gives us a 5% damage boost over vuln, and manages to squeak out a 1% damage increase over vuln even when using a dual dyadus AG. If you can keep the AG alive, that is. :)

PS: The damage boost using the double dyadus AG is tremendous - no wonder it burns down bosses so much faster. It's 55-60% more damage against bosses, and 65-68% more against shaper!

Disclaimer: My math may not agree with whoever coded the damage calculations at GGG. YMMV.

Edited for clarity.

I always regard AG as 5c investment disposable. He lives through most guardian fights and often rip to Shaper. He's less tanky than Stone Golem, what the hell.

Maybe I'll buy a lv3 empower and see if he can live through it (no, I refuse to use a +2 rare helm, I love my devoto's movement speed + bone offering boost :D)

one simple question, why is noone going for ancestral bond + tuko shield? wouldnt an extra totem on the vgs burn the boss content much faster?

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wiwigvn wrote:

I always regard AG as 5c investment disposable. He lives through most guardian fights and often rip to Shaper. He's less tanky than Stone Golem, what the hell.

Maybe I'll buy a lv3 empower and see if he can live through it (no, I refuse to use a +2 rare helm, I love my devoto's movement speed + bone offering boost :D)

I just unsocket AG skill gem when Shaper starts to cast a bullet hell of cold projectiles that deal heavy damage and are incredibly difficult to dodge, while he is invulnerable. And resummon it after this phase, nothing else can kill my 26 lvl AG on shaper.

Hey, question for Uber atziri farmers.

How survivable are each of the minion types (mostly spectre and animate guardian is important)?

And how fast/safe are the runs?

I am unsure how much ehp I should aim for.

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lionking1211 wrote:

one simple question, why is noone going for ancestral bond + tuko shield? wouldnt an extra totem on the vgs burn the boss content much faster?

There is enough damage to kill any boss fast, but high end bosses like Shaper, Chimera, Atziri have phases, so u can't skip phase even if you oneshot boss, so no need overdamage.

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konigreich wrote:

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wiwigvn wrote:

I always regard AG as 5c investment disposable. He lives through most guardian fights and often rip to Shaper. He's less tanky than Stone Golem, what the hell.

Maybe I'll buy a lv3 empower and see if he can live through it (no, I refuse to use a +2 rare helm, I love my devoto's movement speed + bone offering boost :D)

I just unsocket AG skill gem when Shaper starts to cast a bullet hell of cold projectiles that deal heavy damage and are incredibly difficult to dodge, while he is invulnerable. And resummon it after this phase, nothing else can kill my 26 lvl AG on shaper.

I think he mostly rip to the slam and beam, but I'll try your strategy next time