Changes to the Labyrinth

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rocketnob wrote:

From the number of threads it seems that Lab is one of the biggest bugbears for a lot of PoE players, but I've not spotted ANY responses from GGG to these threads to explain their thoughts on this. Have I just missed something from them during one of my breaks from the game?

GGG has never explained their reasons for putting ascendancy classes behind the lab, and have generally downplayed the lab's unpopularity (as in Chris Wilson's early comment that there was only a "vocal minority" who didn't like it).

Perhaps the closest thing to a direct response was in this Dev Q&A thread

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Have you given serious thought to providing people who don't like Labyrinth-style content options to play the rest of the game without going through the content they do not enjoy? Is there some reason it's not being done? Is there any chance it might happen in the future?

This is discussed occasionally but there are no plans to change it in 3.0.0. We're worried about the slippery slope of players wanting the rewards from a system without engaging in that system (although we do understand that Ascendancy classes have been so successful that they are no longer considered rewards but instead intrinsic parts of your character). I am sure we will continue to discuss this and related topics.

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rocketnob wrote:

I've played PoE on and off since 2012. It's still the best ARPG on the market IMO, but boy does the Labyrinth detract from the experience - the Mario/Frogger gamestyle just isn't something I'd choose to play by choice and it doesn't feel to fit comfortably within the game. The Ascendancy points are essential for a decently developed build however which effectively makes the Lab mandatory, as avoiding it would leave you with a much weaker character.

From the number of threads it seems that Lab is one of the biggest bugbears for a lot of PoE players, but I've not spotted ANY responses from GGG to these threads to explain their thoughts on this. Have I just missed something from them during one of my breaks from the game?

Google Translator: GGG lives in their own small fantasy world, where you can sell Skins for 50€ and there are no dissatisfied customers there. The idea itself to hide Ascendancy points behind Lab is absurd, and therefore I do not think that something will Change. The only thing you can do, is to adapt it. You just have to accept the fact, that you can not play everything, even if it is offered to you theoretically. I can only advise you to play the builds, who can easily trivializes the Lab Content. Something like my Chieftain with 2k Life reg. You only need to activate Righteous Fire and you can go afk afterwards.

GGG why you cant make labs half shorter? Or traps and Izaro damage lower?

frogemoth, TyranitarX and rocketnob thank you for voicing your opinion on the labyrinth that it could be improved further in future releases. I've added your names to players voicing similar opinions to the list now at 900 names long. That includes 111 or 112 names from just this thread alone! As the list grows longer our voice grows stronger. Over 330 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 890 posters in support

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frogemoth wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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fiw7 wrote:

I would love for GGG to make ascendancy-points available in some other manner. It almost doesn't matter in what way. "Clear this map of monsters 20 times? Perfect... Anything to avoid the labyrinth"

As it is now, we have to run labyrinth 4 times to get the points, and if you're not very fond of the lab, you end up dreading the levelling. And the ascendancy-points are just too valuable to not do it. They are, quite literally, game changers.

Personally I hate the lab. Not only because it is horrendously coded (lag during ground-fire), but also because of the extreme waste of time, when the game bugs/hangs and kicks you from the lab. I've lost count of the amount of times I have been disconnected during lab-runs.
And I only run them 4 times per character. Just today I have tried running labyrinth 3 times, without being able to complete it. Not dying, but just getting the random dc's/app-hangs/failed to join instance.

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Palin81 wrote:

I sincerely wish they could award us the Ascendency points after we fight against every last boss in stories.

When you defeat the bosses,you ascend.That´s smooth and natural.
Instead we beat 4 times of weird-ass Mechanical King with all the traps and corridors out of nowhere to get these essential points.
Not sophisticated,nor logical.

fiw7 and Palin81 thank you both for voicing your opinions on the disliked labyrinth. I've added your names to the list of players posting similar opinions now at 896 names long. As the list grows longer our voice grows stronger. Over 330 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 890 posters in support There's been something like 108 or 109 names added just from this thread alone. That's about two new names added per page of this thread. That along with the overall length of the list would seem to indicate that the many people dislike this content and think it should be fixed.

Note that in the list people added from this thread have a "#" after their name. If I see a similar post in the Feedback and Suggestions forum then the "#" will be replaced.

You can add me to your list. I am only doing the lab for the prophecies once I have a couple of them waiting for completion.

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Lab can remain with its treasures/rewards and what not. What I don't like is the fact that ascendancies are gated by the lab. As a player who joined in 2013, the core of Path of Exile has always been building your character through the expansive passive tree and unique items. It's not designed for Touhou-like gameplay (exaggerating here, traps aren't that hard). Just as an example, Path of Exile is not controlled by WASD movement but right clicking on the mouse, yet movement in League of Legends feels miles better than PoE (really wish they'd show where you're clicking). This, in tandem with lag, hardware issues, etc., make movement incredibly imprecise. Moreover, for some of the longer trap runs in merc/uber, you can't zoom out far enough to look ahead and plan, so often times you just gotta pop your flasks and hope you'll make it. If you enjoy the lab, go ahead and do it, but please set free the ascendancies.

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rocketnob wrote:

I've played PoE on and off since 2012. It's still the best ARPG on the market IMO, but boy does the Labyrinth detract from the experience - the Mario/Frogger gamestyle just isn't something I'd choose to play by choice and it doesn't feel to fit comfortably within the game. The Ascendancy points are essential for a decently developed build however which effectively makes the Lab mandatory, as avoiding it would leave you with a much weaker character.

From the number of threads it seems that Lab is one of the biggest bugbears for a lot of PoE players, but I've not spotted ANY responses from GGG to these threads to explain their thoughts on this. Have I just missed something from them during one of my breaks from the game?

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TreeOfDead wrote:

GGG why you cant make labs half shorter? Or traps and Izaro damage lower?

Izaro is one of the more interesting bosses in the game. I like fighting him quite a bit; he's the shining exception to how boring and irritating the rest of the lab is.

Plus, Izaro's really heavy hitting attacks are all well telegraphed, so you have time to react. He's one of those bosses that makes you play with skill, which is what ARPGs are all about.

The chief issue with Izaro is that you end up fighting him, in his final incarnation, in a very small space. "Bullet hell in a small space" seems to be GGG's go-to way of making bosses challenging these days, which probably gives many older gamers "Galaga" or "Asteroids" flashbacks and is probably at least part of why Act 4 received a mixed response from players.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

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TreeOfDead wrote:

GGG why you cant make labs half shorter? Or traps and Izaro damage lower?

Izaro is one of the more interesting bosses in the game. I like fighting him quite a bit; he's the shining exception to how boring and irritating the rest of the lab is.

Plus, Izaro's really heavy hitting attacks are all well telegraphed, so you have time to react. He's one of those bosses that makes you play with skill, which is what ARPGs are all about.

The chief issue with Izaro is that you end up fighting him, in his final incarnation, in a very small space. "Bullet hell in a small space" seems to be GGG's go-to way of making bosses challenging these days, which probably gives many older gamers "Galaga" or "Asteroids" flashbacks and is probably at least part of why Act 4 received a mixed response from players.

Couldn't agree more, all this fight the boss on the head of a stamp is just wank...

My puters a potato which doesn't help.

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I can only advise you to play the builds, who can easily trivializes the Lab Content.

I've now started factoring lab carries into the cost of my build / char. Otherwise I simply couldn't get ascendancy points playing builds that are fun to me. If they want you to reroll a character rather than mass-regret orb farm, it really doesn't make sense; considering the changes many builds would require just to do the lab.

How about just removing the traps and make lab like a normal run or as GGG would put it - "more in line with maps"

Can you imagine if the forsaken master's gave you some kind of epic quest kind for your ascendancy classes, and just kept the labyrinth for enchants/phat money loots?

From an RP standpoint, this makes more sense:

Perhaps Vorici can test the new assassin in some kind of labyrinth type of set up to test his mobility skills if he wants to become a tricktster. Or if he wants to become an assassin, he has to navigate through mobs using smoke clouds/line of set in order to get to the target he must assassinate without drawing aggro(lol solid snakuuu), or a saboteur that has 30 seconds to lay down mines/traps and then mobs will spawn and attack him, except you're not allowed to do anything but detonate your mines/traps.

Perhaps Vagan wants Mr. Duelist to 1v1 a large boss with tons of health to become a slayer, or survive as long as he can with blocks as a gladiator, or protect some NPCs from attacks as a champion.

You can get really creative with these, and obviously you can scale the difficulty of these according to how many ascendancy points you have.

I think the labyrinth is an excellent way of an alternative grind to making income. Lab enchants should stay here. Less rooms, but I don't mind if the trap puzzles become more difficult. It's a non-dps challenge. It's not something I view should be mandatory, but I do believe it's necessarily to include for all the people that want to do something different than burn down bosses in <5seconds(which you can still do here, but it's not even on the same level).

No staff responses here. Hrmm.

So you want to make the game harder, less faceroll again, less spam movement skills. I get it.

Lab is just a lame way to do it.

Maybe I'll go play Minecraft Parkour while i wait for 3.0.