Changes to the Labyrinth

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Mahtez wrote:

No matter what with even these few chances lab still sucks. You don't even address the retarded traps an the over damage they do. You don't address loosing a connection in Uber labs. Make more portals an address traps and what ever else to make labs not suck. In conclusion labs still suck.

Wasting an offering because of bad connection is a fairly valid point though. To address this, perhaps the offering can be changed so that you need to place the offering to access the Vault after killing Izaro instead of it being used to access Uber lab. That way the offering is only used up if you successfully defeat Izaro in the end.

"

NickK_GGG wrote:

Much of the feedback we've received since the Labyrinth was added focused on the length and difficulty of the Labyrinth itself, so for the first Labyrinth we are removing some of the areas in the leadup to each fight with Izaro. You will still fight Izaro three times, but the time between each fight will be significantly shorter. This also means that a failed run will generally feel less bad, since you'll be able to regain lost ground more quickly. We will also be looking at ways to simplify certain mechanics in the earliest Labyrinth.

If you want to simplify the mechanics, please REMOVE ALL GOLDEN DOORS/KEYS.

"Where there's a golden door..." there must be a pissed off PoE player.

Maybe is a question of time, the reason GGG is doinng this way. IF they have to revamp to Lab completly they have to delay Fall of Oriathh further more.
So my Idea to improve Lab Is the following. I don`t know what the level of the zones of trials will be but i think if GGG do it right they could set trials in some manner that they match the points that you likely have to do Labs in current way so they can set what i have in mind, that is:
-6 trials (you fight Izaro at end of of each off them and you are rewarded with a ascency point if successful) so this way u dont have to do Labs for Ascency, off course trials should be a little longer(like uber trials but not that lengthy) and have a adicional room for Izaro fight. When enter room you get full healed and pots should be automatic full to be a fair fight.You just get Ascendecy points, no chests our enchants.
-After the 6 trials are complet you can enter "Merciless" Lab were you can have everything you get in the current merciless lab except that you already have the Ascendecy Points so you just do it if masochist,want chest keys and\or enchants. To be a little rewarding run this Lab you could get twice the keys or double enchants you normaly do or get a Offering to Godess where you
currently click to get the Ascendecy when you successful completed.
-Uber trials and Uber Lab are fine mechanically speaking. GGG should increase the spawn of trials to at last one every 3 maps and add a choice so you can increase the level of Uber Lab to 80 or more (optional of course) ,they should nerf poison darts slow or make plates that activate them a little more prominent speciallly when they are together with other traps because I die to many times for them LOL.
-To get uber Ascency points you will have option at entrance to only need to defeat Izaro once, but the Izaro rooms are reversed so you will get a full buffed Izaro more traps in the 1st Izaro room(Rest in pepperonis) and have to take half life of him , if you continue the Lab next phases will be 1/4 life each and rooms are reversed so you get a "less buffed" Izaro in the end . You dont want to do full Lab for points you have the coice to do so but you get full buff Izaro is your choice.
-Reward system for peeps that reach end of the Uber Lab should be the same as now with some tweeks like a chest that could give essence like orb enchants(random nº) so you still have "normal" enchants but you could get essence like orbs that transform a normal item in a rare with that enchant as suffix but other affixs are random like in a essence use.

And thats it! Sorry for bad english and thank you for Not Reading.

"

cipher_nemo wrote:

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NickK_GGG wrote:

Much of the feedback we've received since the Labyrinth was added focused on the length and difficulty of the Labyrinth itself, so for the first Labyrinth we are removing some of the areas in the leadup to each fight with Izaro. You will still fight Izaro three times, but the time between each fight will be significantly shorter. This also means that a failed run will generally feel less bad, since you'll be able to regain lost ground more quickly. We will also be looking at ways to simplify certain mechanics in the earliest Labyrinth.

If you want to simplify the mechanics, please REMOVE ALL GOLDEN DOORS/KEYS.

"Where there's a golden door..." there must be a pissed off PoE player.

^^^^^^^100000000000000% that is funny and sad. LOL

Just completely remove the lab please, it is absolutely terrible and taints every every POE-Time I have to spend in it.

Keep Izaro and his voice, though.

"

Gorila_Power wrote:

Maybe is a question of time, the reason GGG is doinng this way. IF they have to revamp to Lab completly they have to delay Fall of Oriathh further more.
So my Idea to improve Lab Is the following. I don`t know what the level of the zones of trials will be but i think if GGG do it right they could set trials in some manner that they match the points that you likely have to do Labs in current way so they can set what i have in mind, that is:
-6 trials (you fight Izaro at end of of each off them and you are rewarded with a ascency point if successful) so this way u dont have to do Labs for Ascency, off course trials should be a little longer(like uber trials but not that lengthy) and have a adicional room for Izaro fight. When enter room you get full healed and pots should be automatic full to be a fair fight.You just get Ascendecy points, no chests our enchants.
-After the 6 trials are complet you can enter "Merciless" Lab were you can have everything you get in the current merciless lab except that you already have the Ascendecy Points so you just do it if masochist,want chest keys and\or enchants. To be a little rewarding run this Lab you could get twice the keys or double enchants you normaly do or get a Offering to Godess where you
currently click to get the Ascendecy when you successful completed.

All in all a part-time-good idea kinda, till this point. To the rest, Trials are so fast and easy to get, it would be wasted to make them even more common and also the spike's in lab are just boring cause it's always the same, if you die once in 10 run's it's nothing to change. So if you got the idea behind the mechanic's you just run through uber lab and be like "who care's?". Quicksilver, Basalt, Endurance charges and traps do no damage anymore (besides falming ground trap) :3

"

Gorila_Power wrote:

-Uber trials and Uber Lab are fine mechanically speaking. GGG should increase the spawn of trials to at last one every 3 maps and add a choice so you can increase the level of Uber Lab to 80 or more (optional of course) ,they should nerf poison darts slow or make plates that activate them a little more prominent speciallly when they are together with other traps because I die to many times for them LOL.
-To get uber Ascency points you will have option at entrance to only need to defeat Izaro once, but the Izaro rooms are reversed so you will get a full buffed Izaro more traps in the 1st Izaro room(Rest in pepperonis) and have to take half life of him , if you continue the Lab next phases will be 1/4 life each and rooms are reversed so you get a "less buffed" Izaro in the end . You dont want to do full Lab for points you have the coice to do so but you get full buff Izaro is your choice.
-Reward system for peeps that reach end of the Uber Lab should be the same as now with some tweeks like a chest that could give essence like orb enchants(random nº) so you still have "normal" enchants but you could get essence like orbs that transform a normal item in a rare with that enchant as suffix but other affixs are random like in a essence use.

And thats it! Sorry for bad english and thank you for Not Reading.

"

IHellBoundI wrote:

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cipher_nemo wrote:

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NickK_GGG wrote:

Much of the feedback we've received since the Labyrinth was added focused on the length and difficulty of the Labyrinth itself, so for the first Labyrinth we are removing some of the areas in the leadup to each fight with Izaro. You will still fight Izaro three times, but the time between each fight will be significantly shorter. This also means that a failed run will generally feel less bad, since you'll be able to regain lost ground more quickly. We will also be looking at ways to simplify certain mechanics in the earliest Labyrinth.

If you want to simplify the mechanics, please REMOVE ALL GOLDEN DOORS/KEYS.

"Where there's a golden door..." there must be a pissed off PoE player.

^^^^^^^100000000000000% that is funny and sad. LOL

Golden doors could be used to close off branches which contain more profitable silver doors. Then you'd have the choice, go fast or go for profit.

"

Antares_Black_Sky wrote:

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Lykkoith wrote:

Hell yeah, you want to have the same rewards that someone who actually accepts the challenge, at the cost of nothing. You want ascendancy points and enchantments, right? But you don't want to get them by yourself, neither to pay someone to get them for you. Lab is as optional as ascendancies are. You don't like it? Ok, just don't do it, all you have to do is forget about getting those rewards.

"Hey guys! I want a 100 ex gear for my build, but I don't want to even think about farming them myself. Can you please give it to me for free?" Oh c'mon! Are you serious!?

Ridicolous post. Moreover: ascendancies optional? Even more ridicolous ;) Without them, a duelist/witch cannot specialize at maximum effectiveness in block, a marauder not at maximum in leech, a shadow not at maximum in crit etc

People is NOT asking ascendancy points for free. People is asking to detach them from lab, maybe making them a reward for killing the gods (lore: that god's aura was hindering your innate abilities, and now that you have killed him/her, some of your powers return to you). And this is not too much difficult to understand, for someone that possess at least two neurons anyway

And the sad thing is: GGG continues to hear to people like you...

Time to have a long pause with this game: i was thinking to give some serious money to GGG for 3.0, but after this thread about Lab, i have totally rethinked my decision

The post is not ridiculous, your response is. Just as you mention a Witch/Duelist can't reach maximum effectiveness in block without lab, neither can they reach it without the proper gear. You can reach crit cap without getting Assasin, as there are Inquisitor builds that can do it. Crit cap was hit before ascendancies were a thing.

They ARE optional. You can reach maps without ever doing the lab. You can reach level 100 without ever doing lab. People were farming Uber Atziri before lab.

It is an optional thing, that grants a significant power boost. It is harder for some builds than others, just as farming shaper is harder for a vaal spark character, yet farming strands really fast is harder for a double totem build.

There is not a single piece of content in this game that REQUIRES you to ascend. Not one. Just as there are people with good builds and good skill that can farm some of the hardest content on a four link budget build (most of which abuse double dipping right now) there are people that can farm the hardest content without ascendancies.

"

cipher_nemo wrote:

"

NickK_GGG wrote:

Much of the feedback we've received since the Labyrinth was added focused on the length and difficulty of the Labyrinth itself, so for the first Labyrinth we are removing some of the areas in the leadup to each fight with Izaro. You will still fight Izaro three times, but the time between each fight will be significantly shorter. This also means that a failed run will generally feel less bad, since you'll be able to regain lost ground more quickly. We will also be looking at ways to simplify certain mechanics in the earliest Labyrinth.

If you want to simplify the mechanics, please REMOVE ALL GOLDEN DOORS/KEYS.

"Where there's a golden door..." there must be a pissed off PoE player.

That's a very precise and good point. It feels like a "psychological warfare", against the players....

"

BJWPDaemonSadi wrote:

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Antares_Black_Sky wrote:

"

Lykkoith wrote:

Hell yeah, you want to have the same rewards that someone who actually accepts the challenge, at the cost of nothing. You want ascendancy points and enchantments, right? But you don't want to get them by yourself, neither to pay someone to get them for you. Lab is as optional as ascendancies are. You don't like it? Ok, just don't do it, all you have to do is forget about getting those rewards.

"Hey guys! I want a 100 ex gear for my build, but I don't want to even think about farming them myself. Can you please give it to me for free?" Oh c'mon! Are you serious!?

Ridicolous post. Moreover: ascendancies optional? Even more ridicolous ;) Without them, a duelist/witch cannot specialize at maximum effectiveness in block, a marauder not at maximum in leech, a shadow not at maximum in crit etc

People is NOT asking ascendancy points for free. People is asking to detach them from lab, maybe making them a reward for killing the gods (lore: that god's aura was hindering your innate abilities, and now that you have killed him/her, some of your powers return to you). And this is not too much difficult to understand, for someone that possess at least two neurons anyway

And the sad thing is: GGG continues to hear to people like you...

Time to have a long pause with this game: i was thinking to give some serious money to GGG for 3.0, but after this thread about Lab, i have totally rethinked my decision

The post is not ridiculous, your response is. Just as you mention a Witch/Duelist can't reach maximum effectiveness in block without lab, neither can they reach it without the proper gear. You can reach crit cap without getting Assasin, as there are Inquisitor builds that can do it. Crit cap was hit before ascendancies were a thing.

They ARE optional. You can reach maps without ever doing the lab. You can reach level 100 without ever doing lab. People were farming Uber Atziri before lab.

It is an optional thing, that grants a significant power boost. It is harder for some builds than others, just as farming shaper is harder for a vaal spark character, yet farming strands really fast is harder for a double totem build.

There is not a single piece of content in this game that REQUIRES you to ascend. Not one. Just as there are people with good builds and good skill that can farm some of the hardest content on a four link budget build (most of which abuse double dipping right now) there are people that can farm the hardest content without ascendancies.

Sry in the past it maybe WAS possible, but since then there changed a bit. Sure there is a possiblity and I guess GGG will always let the possibility open to do every content without kinda anything. But your ascendancy's decide's enourmous about your endgame viability and the effectivity of your own character. Sure if the guy is the lazy or whatever to don't make such a easy thing himself or with help, than he should learn to play without. I mean maybe you forgot that they also changed crit's and several other skill node's that make a crit cap far harder then before (Labyrinth/Ascendancy) + additional skills changed mostly all several time's (mostly the mechanic's).

Peace