Changes to the Labyrinth

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Tyrex15 wrote:
The lab, like Atziri and Shaper, has a place in the game. A good place. It is a vector for earning some of the best loot (well, Uber lab is good for this), as well as adding some interesting enchantment options.

However, Ascendency should not be tied to the lab.

Too many builds simply can't deal with Izaro. Do you rely on a Vaal skill (e.g. Vaal Grace) as a layer of defense? Does not work for Izaro, sorry. Are you life-based? Izaro's ridiculously counter-intuitive invisible hit-boxes of doom have a one-shot for you.

Additionally, insanely dim lighting, multi-screen trap gauntlets, and trap combinations that cannot be navigated hit-less are absolutely terrible from a platforming perspective. There are spike + saw blade layouts that you cannot time because you are racing through the part you could see with no chance to analyze the portion that is off screen until you are standing on it. There are roomba + spike dart layouts that actually offer no window of safety while traversing due to their timing.

All of this can exist and be a good thing, pushing players to make dedicated lab-runners if they want to run lab. We already have this with Atziri and Shaper and the highest tiers of league challenges. Some (optional) content should only be possible for a build dedicated to that content.

But, I CANNOT use my dedicated lab build to run the Ascendency for one of my other characters.

That, right there, is the fatal flaw of lab. It is content that is required for builds that cannot be built around running that content. No one is required to run Atziri to progress past level 80. No one has to kill Merciless Malachai before running maps. No other aspect of character progression is gated behind a task that (massively) favors specific builds over others.

Leave lab in the game. Leave the option to run it at differing challenge levels, with the cool enchants gated behind those levels. Leave the loot in Uber lab as is, and buff the loot a bit in the lower challenge levels. Add some slight deterministic weighting to the enchant system for helms (the current system is the Keno of RNG crafting -- just a black hole to throw one's time into).

Lab farmers will emerge as a play style, just like Atziri farmers and Shaper farmers. And the rest of the builds in the game can progress from Twilight Strand to maps without having to engage in content for which they are severely sub-optimal.


pretty much this i would prefer the lab to be a little harder soo lab enchants still have alot of value they should not be easy to get not everybuild can do uber lab
man you people are never happy some people like lab they are making it a little easier and you guys still complain i am all for making lab even harder soo i can see tears of salt from all of you.
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Tyrex15 wrote:
The lab, like Atziri and Shaper, has a place in the game. A good place. It is a vector for earning some of the best loot (well, Uber lab is good for this), as well as adding some interesting enchantment options.

However, Ascendency should not be tied to the lab.

Too many builds simply can't deal with Izaro. Do you rely on a Vaal skill (e.g. Vaal Grace) as a layer of defense? Does not work for Izaro, sorry. Are you life-based? Izaro's ridiculously counter-intuitive invisible hit-boxes of doom have a one-shot for you.

Additionally, insanely dim lighting, multi-screen trap gauntlets, and trap combinations that cannot be navigated hit-less are absolutely terrible from a platforming perspective. There are spike + saw blade layouts that you cannot time because you are racing through the part you could see with no chance to analyze the portion that is off screen until you are standing on it. There are roomba + spike dart layouts that actually offer no window of safety while traversing due to their timing.

All of this can exist and be a good thing, pushing players to make dedicated lab-runners if they want to run lab. We already have this with Atziri and Shaper and the highest tiers of league challenges. Some (optional) content should only be possible for a build dedicated to that content.

But, I CANNOT use my dedicated lab build to run the Ascendency for one of my other characters.

That, right there, is the fatal flaw of lab. It is content that is required for builds that cannot be built around running that content. No one is required to run Atziri to progress past level 80. No one has to kill Merciless Malachai before running maps. No other aspect of character progression is gated behind a task that (massively) favors specific builds over others.

Leave lab in the game. Leave the option to run it at differing challenge levels, with the cool enchants gated behind those levels. Leave the loot in Uber lab as is, and buff the loot a bit in the lower challenge levels. Add some slight deterministic weighting to the enchant system for helms (the current system is the Keno of RNG crafting -- just a black hole to throw one's time into).

Lab farmers will emerge as a play style, just like Atziri farmers and Shaper farmers. And the rest of the builds in the game can progress from Twilight Strand to maps without having to engage in content for which they are severely sub-optimal.


pretty much this i would prefer the lab to be a little harder soo lab enchants still have alot of value they should not be easy to get not everybuild can do uber lab


I guess that's kind of the message, not everyone should be easily able to do everything in this game. Sure a sup class will have it's probs in the lab, but there should be more then enough people willingly to group up with someone who make them invincible or just so OP that there are no enemies anymore....
My eyes hurt from reading 40+ pages

More hate than love. The hate is just the vocal minority, though, disregard. /s

I haven't been vocal about my hate, and if GGG looks at stats, they will see I participate in the lab as much as I have to. Doesn't matter if I hate it or not, they will interpret these stats however they want to.

My only reason to post, is to suggest everyone wasting their time giving solutions to GGG about the lab, save your keystrokes. They are too stubborn.
Life will be technically better Soon TM
My proposal for how the Labyrinth should be presented along the mainline.

1. The Goddess appears and interferes with the 6 trials in acts 1, 2, and 3. Do away with the Lab entrance in Sarn! (more on this below)

***PLEASE, NO MORE TRIALS IN WORLD AREAS BEYOND THE PRIMERS IN ACTS 1, 2, and 3.***

2. The Goddess appears and interferes with mainline boss fights along the way. Perhaps after Piety in Lunaris 2. Then again in Act 6. And again in Act 8 or 9. Upon her defeat, and only after the boss is also dead, a portal opens up to the appropriate Labyrinth.


3. The Goddess appears and interferes with random MAP bosses that are above Level 75 (so tier 6+?). Upon her defeat, and only after the map boss is dead, a portal opens up to a RANDOM UBER MAP TRIAL.

4. Place the entrance to the Uber Labyrinth at the back of every map trial.

5. Do away with the 6 Uber Trial Completion Requirement.

This will do away with the ability to chain farm enchantments by simply buying keys. It will bring an organic feel to the Labyrinth's place in the game. It will reduce the number of world trials (6 is enough, man!). It will bring selling Uber Lab entrances instead of keys to the game, and, you still have to run a trial gauntlet to get in.

I honestly think this would integrate the Lab into the lore of Wraeclast much better than it currently sits. As it sits, it feels to me anyhow, like an outsider, an unintegrated piece of content.

6. Put another Altar in the last room, that turns Treasure Keys, into additional enchantment altar activators.
Even if 100% of the posters here expressed their hatred GGG can still easily show how the lab is one of the most played zone because you need to do it 4 times on every new character you make like it or not.

You can never beat that so better be content with the small victories.
Ascendancy still gated behind Lab?

Still gotta do x4 Lab?

GGG, I am disappoint.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give moar Power Creep Pls

Lab is cancer, cancer is bad. Less time spent with cancer is good. Good change.
(Yes, I can do all the lab's on all my characters. No it isn't hard. It's just, well, cancer...)
Like the other 44 pages said before...
Please, give us the chance to make an easier Lab to get only the ascendancy points and let expertise people to run actual versions to get keys, rewards and enchants.

As a semi-casual player, I ever desing my own builds thinking in 2 ascendancy points, max 4.
This limits my character, I know, but the idea to be killed on Izaro at high level and rerun AGAIN all lab... pffff...

But I would like to say something more:
Why if I wish the ascencancy-passive of Fortitude (100% time with Fortify buff) I should be ONLY a duelist?

I play first time PoE because "you can do your char as you wish, fully customization".
And this customization is not true yet.
I can do with passives a character as I wish... making it less efective if I change the "natural" char playstyle, but game gives me this freedom.
But with ascendancy can't have this option.

My suggestion (i know a lot of people will dislike me), is to let players to get access to other classes ascencancy trees with 2 ascendancy points.

For example:
I play with a witch, get 2 ascendancy points.
I can get 2 ascendancy passives from my tree OR unlock the access to another ascendancy class tree
Imagine I unlock the duelist-champion tree.
Will have it unlocked, but 0 ascendancy points free (unlock another class tree costs 2 points9
After completing the second lab, will have 2 points to spend only on the champion tree

Players that plays with duelist, will have 8 points to spend at end of uber-lab, but who unlocked the other class tree, only have 6 points, making they less efective but full customized :)

ps: I really-really-really hate duelist character, I can't play with it, i hate it, but their 100%-full-time-fortify ascendancy point... i wish it a lot... but I hate duelist.
This is probably the first threat where I've read every single comment. All 44 pages of rage and what I've come to see is the overwhelming majority either hate lab, hate that it's tied to ascending, Dislike having to do trials, hate just the traps and how lvl 100s can die in normal, hate the enhancements for norm/cruel/merc, or they hate the RNG for enhancing items.

So lets assume that lab won't be removed and it won't be separated from ascending. What are some of the best ways to compromise with GGG's vision?

So far the leading suggestion is an easy lab for ascending and a difficult lab for people who want to farm it.

Also changing the enhancements into an item was a good idea. That way if you get a good enhancement for something you absolutely don't need but could use on a specific item you can just apply it, or sell the enhancement itself.

Also heard getting rid of low level glove enhance. Word of _____ is usually too weak to kill a white monster so it's really pointless. If we're going to maintain 4 I suggest this.

Normal = no enhancment
Cruel = Commandment enhancement for gloves
Merc = Level 3 Boot enhancement
Uber = Helmet enhancements.


I'd also like to hear some more new ideas. Anyone?

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