Damage Over Time Changes - Part 1

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Builds that didn't use Poison or Ignite required significantly more investment to reach the same damage values.

So they are basically nerfing the builds cause they deal more DMG than other builds instead of buffing other DMG types. WTF logic.

lots of words that can be summed up: there wont be any real changes.

but we will double the damage of some combinations just because we like power creep and people playing the same 4 builds


dear ggg, there is a reason why some games use 'direct' and 'indirect' damage separation (like physical and internal trauma in Grim Dawn). without it there will ALWAYS be some stupidity going on. the 'solution' listed in the OP is not a solution at all. it just moves some broken things around and eliminats one or two most blatant ones

simple test: will it be still possible to kill Shaper with white wand, Added Chaos gem and poison? if yes - then your changes are not worth implementing

I agree with double dipping being an issue, but in some cases it made sense. Obviously a lot of info is still left unknown, but from the wording it feels like the passive tree could turn into even more of marathon in terms of traveling. Reworking/adding nodes in the passive tree just to keep a certain builds as an "option" isn't the best answer imo, as it has to be done well or people won't bother with inefficient nodes.

I have high hopes for 3.0, but I can't help but feel like GGG is on the verge of shooting themselves in the foot. I'm hoping that the double-dip "fix" and the recent AoE nerf are pieces of their end game to make the game more diverse and add more creative depth, and not their way of fixing what some people would call the power creep over the past few leagues.



Here's to well thought out balancing, and proper Beta feedback for a great 3.0 launch!

Sounds great

You wouldn't ever double dip in the salsa, why would you double dip in POE? SHAME ON YOU.

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CommodoreHatsworth wrote:

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grepman wrote:

if area damage can still affect both the initial hit and the dot, its the very same double dipping that is rampant now.

The problem with double dipping as it is now is that "100% more damage" would increase the dot by 4, doubling the base damage, and then doubling the DoT.

It would now just double your total damage.

The DoT is only being affected once, hence it is not double dipping.

thats ONE of the problems of double dipping- exponential scaling of (total multiplier)^2. and its more of a problem in ignite builds because the biggest one matters.

again, there is a reason there is no generic damage multiplier on the tree, yeah ?
thats why we have specific damage types. if void manipulation will still apply 39% more multiplier to ALL damage of a chaos-based build that has both initial hit and DoT made on one skill hit, its still BiS support and still a problem.

the DoT component being a tacked on damage scalable by your non-dot hit damage damage type, is the biggest problem with something like poison. especially with how easy it is to get the DoT (poison or ignite) in the first place. exponential scaling simply makes it a runaway train.

a skill that currently has both initial hit and a Dot (vortex, ED) are still going to be very, very strong as opposed to skills that dont rely on DoTs.

It really doesnt sound like its significantly changed, from what it sounds like its just going to be easier to build a broken ignite character. Also, youre nerfing other builds directly to deal with double dipping. Soo RIP anyone doing things like Voidheart Poison/Bleed RT, you just got fucked by these changes.

Double dipping still exists with these changes, im betting nothing changes significantly whatsoever. Someones 1 million DPS poison/ignite build might drop to like 600-800k, really not significant whatsoever.

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sidtherat wrote:

simple test: will it be still possible to kill Shaper with white wand, Added Chaos gem and poison? if yes - then your changes are not worth implementing

well, added chaos in this case isnt a good gem anymore because it will only be added to your main hit. but if slow proj/conc/etc still work the same, they will still apply to both the main hit and dot portion.

ie, the runaway train that is exponential scaling will be removed, but its pretty much guaranteed that skills with DoT will still handily overshadow non-dot counterparts unless there are more sweeping changes.

Lol, I find it hard to read the responses in here without responding with "Is there anything Chris could have said that would have made you happy?"

There's no specifics, to pessimists see the worst possible, and optimists stay silent waiting for details.

Still, I see it about as positive as possible - it's a problem, they have some logical-sounding things to fix the double-dipping power exponential problem, and keep build variety possible.

Personally I've frustrated how every build I make totally sucks vs. poison blade vortex. So I welcome a more fair playing field. But I have ADD, so get sick of the same build after awhile and like investing in regrets to pivot.

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WillisTheWillis wrote:

To GGG:
With the new mechanism, we can deal a small hit with great dot damage. This makes aliment immune monsters so powerful to ignite-oriented builds. Will there be any change to the aliment immune system so that the new ignite builds can still run those maps or kill those bosses? Maybe a new keystone "you can apply aliment to monsters that immune aliment" can help.

I'm picturing a keystone that does exactly that, which also states something like, "You only deal damage from damage over time sources." Behind the keystone will be a bunch of DoT nodes.

Overall...sounds...okay, but more information is needed before anyone can really make a call. If DoTs inheriting the tags of the skills that caused them in the first place gets removed (as it should for reasons explained clearly by earlier posts) and actual DoT damage gets a large enough buff through passives and itemization, then it sounds like a viable alternative playstyle.

Part of the overall equation, though, is still Vaal Pact. Other than ED, lots of the double dipping abuse in meta builds still takes advantage of CI/low life, Ghost Reaver and Vaal Pact since the initial hits for most builds are still substantial enough to survive easily with leech and Vaal Pact.

If you're going to have people choose to scale their DoT damage *instead of* their initial hit damage in order to make DoT builds reliable DPS, then leech and Vaal Pact will no longer be reliable methods of keeping such characters alive and instead they'll have to go the regen route, unless there are also plans for passives/itemization/gems that allow an ED-like life return for other DoT sources...could be cool.