-Slayer should use this Heavy Strike AoE setup to clear; Other ascendancy choices should just use Sunder.
Why? doesn't Sunder have way better clear? Why this choice?
Heavy Strike with Ancestral Call deals 193% base damage times 1.52 for double damage chances, 3 swings due to Ancestral Call so times 3, times 0.84 for Ancestral Call penalty. 193% * 1.52 * 3 * 0.84 = 739%.
Sunder deals 181% base damage times 1.3 for using Maim instead of Ancestral Call times 0.85 for Sunder built-in attack speed penalty. 181% * 1.3 * 0.85 = 200%.
Sunder aftershock deals 40% of original damage, so on average we need (739 / 200 - 1) / 0.4 = 6.7 aftershocks applied on each enemy for Sunder to deal as much damage as Heavy Strike.
Sunder deals damage in a line and Heavy Strike will blast around you. Personally I feel I have more control over the latter. Also there is the targeting problem with Multistrike if Sunder is used.
Heavy Strike also has much better stun capability and mobs will be more reliably stunned.
So I believe it's almost objectively better to clear with Heavy Strike if you're playing Slayer. However, if you test it out and find out that you actually like Sunder better - then just use Sunder, it isn't bad.
what bandits ? and now with the changes isnt better juggernaut together with tectonic for clear speed ?
2 passive points is the best bandit option, although Oak isn't bad.
I believe Juggernaut is a noob trap. Unless you don't care about endgame performance other ascendancy choices are just going to be better. The problem with Jugg is that it offers a ton of defense while it offers no real offense. This doesn't fit the theme of a stun build.
Tectonic Slam has damage conversion which actually lowers our damage, it also consumes endurance charges very fast. I kind of like the AoE of this skill but I don't think it's good enough for our build.
For anyone who doesn't know yet, Endurance on Melee Stun Support(from Tidebreaker) now gives 3% more damage per endurance charges. I made huge changes to the build to adapt to this.
With 6 endurance charges we get 18% more damage... This is an insane buff to this build.
Last edited by brightwaha on Mar 3, 2018, 4:29:40 PM
what bandits ? and now with the changes isnt better juggernaut together with tectonic for clear speed ?
2 passive points is the best bandit option, although Oak isn't bad.
I believe Juggernaut is a noob trap. Unless you don't care about endgame performance other ascendancy choices are just going to be better. The problem with Jugg is that it offers a ton of defense while it offers no real offense. This doesn't fit the theme of a stun build.
Tectonic Slam has damage conversion which actually lowers our damage, it also consumes endurance charges very fast. I kind of like the AoE of this skill but I don't think it's good enough for our build.
i think oak is a good choice as berserker, because 1% regen
Juggernaut seem like the strongest options right now.
Spoiler
Going Crit on Jugg seems like a no brainer to maximize the damage and stuns.
Crit-Stun Berserker struggles hard to get accuracy so he's ending up with similar or lower damage than my Crit-stun Jugg on PoB, depending on how much accuracy I have.
RT Berserker is just going to be dealing 50% less damage or more no matter what though, there is just no point in this class with Jugg I feel.
However, Crit-Stun berserker, at 50 rage and getting T1 accuracy rolls on gear starts dealing about 15~20% more damage than Juggernaut, only 15~20% because he still can't accuracy cap and the fact that you NEED 50 rage stacks is unattractive but Crit Stun Berserker is eventually going to be stronger, it's just a pain in the ass to get there and you end up with a net-loss defenses for choosing this class.
Crit-Stun Juggernaut on the other hand trades off that 15~20% more damage for 100% Stun Duration and a shit ton of defenses that could justify trading in the Kaom's Heart for an Elder Chest with 2% attack Crit Chance which would also provide us with a second 6Link and that 6Link would be huge for Frenzy + Pcoc + Curse on Hit + Punishment + Assassin's Mark (Dual curse with ammy) + Increased Critical Strikes. Or even something a bit more clever(scroll bottom to see my findings)
Moving Frenzy to Chest would free up a slot for Chance to Bleed on the Warchief so that Vulnerability is no longer essential.
It sounds like the best option to me. A juggernaut's crit ruthless double heavy strike damage would deal about 8million damage in a single hit by my conservative calculations, it's likely capable of 10million+ . The chance that our ruthless blow will be crit AND double HS damage is about 35% chance with our 70% crit and 52% Double Damage Heavy Strike, which means every 3rd Ruthless Blow is likely going to hit for that 8million+ damage number.
With Juggernaut we attack 2.5 times a second which means the rate of occurrence for our Double Damage Crit Ruthless Blows will be about 9 seconds or three revolutions of Ruthless Blows. Juggernaut adds about 1 second of stun duration, bringing the stun up to nearly 3 seconds on Ruthless Blows, however our non-ruthless blows will also be capable of stunning Shaper, dealing 4million+ damage every 3 attacks, or 2million damage every other attack if only crit procs, or 1million damage every other attack if only Double Heavy Strike damage procs. Each of those non-ruthless blow attacks will are capable of stunning shaper for about 1.25 seconds with Juggernaut adding an extra 350ms to the base duration. Meaning we're never not dealing significant stuns, it would be 100% chance to stunlock.
In addition it just deals significantly more damage to go crit. One of our Crit Ruthless Blows will chunk Shaper for half of his health lol.
Let me bring up some of my points:
1. Abyssus alone is not going to be able to boost Juggernaut's DPS to a level comparable to Berserker's. To be honest when you say something like 10million damage in a hit (half of Shaper's life pool), I doubt that you're either equipping perfect rolled gears or not setting up PoB config correctly.
2. Champion with 100% chance to hit is going to be even more effective than Juggernaut.
3. Juggernaut does not simply have 90% physical damage mitigation.
That brings me to my final addition to the perma stun lovers out there.
Animate Guardian 6Link. That's right.
Spoiler
You heard me correctly, 6Link Animate Guardian. Equipping Animate Guardian with Cospri's Malice and Windscreams gives him the ability to Tri-Curse for us. So we use Animate Guardian + Curse on Hit + Vulnerability + Punishment + Assassin's Mark + Minion Life. He will curse for us. In addition to him automatically Tri-Cursing bosses for us, he also provides us with 28% increased damage from Leer Cast and Dying Breath and also increases the effectiveness of curses on nearby enemies by 18% with Dying breath which when combined with curse on hit support's 20% quality bonus makes all three of his curses 30% stronger and this ignores hexproof bosses and hexproof mods because Cospri's will. 30% stronger curses on 3 curses is roughly the equivalent of going quad curses in terms of the damage it provides us, which essentially means this guy is giving us 40% more damage vs guardians and shaper and 80% more damage to normal bosses then 200% more damage vs anything else.
In short, it's really strong to do this for single target, 40% more damage and 28% increased Damage, without having to use any curse unlimiting items or passives on yourself, all it takes is a 6Link. You could even do this on a 4Link with a pair of Asenath's Touch Gloves corrupted with Vulnerability on your Animated Guardian. It would lower the damage you get significantly, to about 24% more damage but temporal chains would increase our stun durations by 10% more.
To prevent animate guardian from dying you simply need to equip a pair of rare gloves with 40% all res on him. He has 25% ele resist across all difficulties and gets 15% from windscreams. A rare helmet with 30% all res would be required for ele weak capping but isn't necessary for most content.
In addition to that we could potentially use Vigilant Strike with the Vigil Jewel to give ourselves and our Guardian Fortify. Or you could corrupt a pair of 40% all res gloves with vulnerability and put fortify in his gem links. Either way he will have 30k life at gem lvl 21 with Minion Life, which is more than enough to shrug off every attack in the game, even shaper and elder slams, and we will be using a Sulphur Flask for our damage, since it's as strong as a Lion's Roar, Lion's Roar only provides 5% more damage over a Sulphur Flask simply due to how much MORE damage we have over increased damage, the consecrated ground buff heals us and our guardian for 6% of our life a second, 6% of 30,000 is 5K regen for our Animated Guardian, with 75% all res this means our Guardian can regenerate through Shaper Beams and bullet hells even without, even if he weren't stunlocked.
You could also get super memey with our animate guardian for a rippy mapping set-up aswell, and give him 1 Dyadus and 1 Singularity, so that he will 100% chill for 1 second providing 30% reduced action speed on everything he hits and everything around him will be slowed by 25% Replace vulnerability for melee splash and Assassin's Mark for Enfeeble, then equip him with a pair of gloves corrupted with Temp chains on hit and he will serve as the ultimate defensive Aurabot.
Everything around our Animated Guardian will be slowed by 25% thanks to Singularity's Hinder Aura, and when he hits a pack with melee splash he applies Enfeeble, Temp Chains, and a 1 second 30% Chill.
Reducing the enemy's action speeds by 60% or 45% on bosses, which doubles the survivability of both you and the Guardian. Things basically just crawl at that point.
In fact With Tri-Curse Animated Guardian set-up on Juggernaut, I found that it's not required that we even use Heavy Strike or it's Jewels. In fact It's entirely possible to do enough damage with crits that swapping to Vigilant Strike in place of Heavy Strike will in fact deal the same amount of average hit damage due to "Hit's Can't be Evaded" while also providing two extra Jewel Sockets and eliminating our need to pick up accuracy anywhere at all. It also means we and our Animated Guardian will always have a Fortify that has a very long duration.
Berserker will be capable of doing 50% more damage than Juggernaut with the same set-up but Juggernaut's tankiness and the 140% extra stun duration he gets simply vastly outweighs the damage increase in my opinion. What I mean is simply that Berserker will never hit 90% Phys mitigation on a dead center Shaper slam. So wearing an Abyssus on Berserker is essentialy suicide, but wearing an Abyssus on Juggernaut with determination is just another walk in the park and it's going to deal 2,000 damage to you after it's mitigated 20,000, which is going to then give you 300 life regen per second for 10 seconds thanks to Unbreakable.
Jugg's just a beast, he regenerates 150% of the physical damage you deal to him with 90% physical mitigation, let that sink in, that means that no amount of physical damage in the game will ever be enough to kill a Juggernaut. Simply because he regenerates a net positive 45% of the damage you deal to him, after tanking 2 shaper slams back to back it would only take 4 seconds for unbreakable to heal that damage, after 4 shaper slams back to back it takes 2 seconds, after 8, it takes one second, after 16 slams Unbreakable would be regenerating faster than the strongest physical attack in the game can hit him.
This doesn't even take into account your base Regen or Fortify, every physical hit against you is reduced past 90% by 25% which offsets Abyssus and gives you an 89.5% effective PDR.
Berserker can't reach that and in fact degens for 10% of his life per second, so while he does have great damage, he can't feasibly run around with an Abyssus like Juggernaut.
Similar story for Slayer, tbh. Slayer only has 100% stun duration compared to Juggernaut's 140% stun duration, yes, he does get 20% more damage and a 20% chance to double stun duration, and overleech, he's a far better option than Berserker, but the same problem occurs in that he just doesn't have any efficient methods in which to reach 90% Physical Mitigation, meaning with Abyssus he's still susceptible to one shots.
Crit Stun Vigilante Strike Juggernaut is THE stunner of stunners, because even when he faces unwavering enemies, he's not going to die to any one shot mechanics, due to 90% phys mitigation and the equivalent of 84% max ele resistances.
4. On Curse on Hit Support, there is one phrase: "Minions cannot apply curses this way". Also Punishment just won't work for us as stunners.
5. Animate Guardian also requires high life regen rate to survive.
6. Also, if you're to use Vigilant Strike, removing the need of any accuracy, why would you still play Juggernaut?
7. You also seem to be mentioning more ascendancy points than you can pick from Juggernaut?
I really need to see your PoB setup, then we can be on the same page. I think you're too ideal while making this build and there are just many things that PoB thinks works but in reality won't (Punishment curse, for example).
It is an interesting and hot topic that if a crit version, Jugg or Champion or if anything else, can work better. If you'd like we can surely have further discussions.
i think oak is a good choice as berserker, because 1% regen
Yea Berserker definitely has more reasons to pick Oak bandit reward. However, there are many "mandatory" passives to pick right now, and I would say 2 passive points are still better unless you have reached at least level 90.
Hey there, do you somehow know the mechanics of Tidebreaker with Tectonic Slam
Since Tectonic Slam consumes an endurance charge will you still get the damage bonus per endurance charge from Tidebreaker?
Or does it not count since you "no longer" have the endurance charge since it does get consumed by tectonic slam so you dont get the damage bonus per endurance charge from Tidebreaker?
