[3.14] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, ✔️All Bosses Down, ✔️Necro, ✔️Elementalist

hey ive got a math question about golems:
i was using 6 golems as an elementarist

4flame
1light (buff)
1stone (buff)

and like 8 gems witch buff 20%golem damage for each golem type so 60%per gem.

so that alone is 480% golem damage. with 4 golems.

+90%minion damage from tree = 570% with 4.

so how much damage do i lose when using 6 golems of one type ?


thats 250%golem damage with 6 golems
2 more golems is like +33%damage but i lose 320% golem damage.

i know for a fact that the 4/1/1 is more damage cuz some ppl did the math

but how much more is it ?

not sure if i want to make another elementarist with just 6 (same type) golems or a summoner.

"

Shiverwarp wrote:

"

mika2solo wrote:

Hey :)

I'm pretty sure "Golem Skills have (20-30)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed" only applies to your cooldown on casting Golems. If there were other skill that current summon Golem ones, it would be useful, but as Golems are resummoned very rarely, its not very effective to stack it.

So here's my reason for the hypothesis:

1. My original testing with a base unlinked no jewels golem showed the expected base cooldown + charges on Magma Ball. After they have used up their initial volley, they will shoot 1 Magma ball every 6 seconds. (https://gfycat.com/NeedyWeepyGossamerwingedbutterfly)

2. tomatopotato showed footage of a golem with 15 perfect Harmony jewels shooting many more magma balls than would be possible under the normal way cooldown reduction works on abilities (https://youtu.be/w6nSVSkf5xs) I can't run the calculations on this one because I don't know the stats of tomatopotato's jewels to confirm. He also wasn't capping his cooldown in this example, which is required to get an accurate measurement.

3. Aboba ran a test (https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1827487/page/182#p15184110) that showed again that Flame Golems are capped by their cooldown, but were still shooting more magma balls than we would expect from their total cooldown if only "Golems have (10-15)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed" was having an effect. I added up and calculated the cooldown if both stats WERE working, and it fit EXACTLY to the number of Magma balls Aboba was getting (https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1827487/page/182#p15184212).

"

Now it's not a confirmation, but I very strongly suspect it to be the case. At the very least something is causing the cooldown to be lower than we expect it to be.

sry to tell u this but 10-15 recovery stat applies to golem's own skills. first stats 20-30 applies to summoning golem's recovery speed.

official explanation:

"

Oh I'm well aware of how it's supposed to work, but from the examples you see there, it at least suggests that both are applying.

"

Oh I'm well aware of how it's supposed to work, but from the examples you see there, it at least suggests that both are applying.
well anyway its all a waste of time.
just get the 15% increased cooldown reduction jewels and run it.
i just finished the game with my 6l spectre 6l golems hybrid necro and i havent failed even 1 map..
my point is its not worth a debate or hypothesis.

and also i d like to add that elementalist golems are pretty weak now due to minions cant deal dmg when you die so if you can afford getting an elder helmet for spectres and a 6l vis mortis you can pretty much deal with all the content in the game. its a fast clearing boss killing machine. i do recommend the build to all golementalist lovers in previous leagues.
my guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2063563

"

I simply can't agree that it's not worth optimizing damage in a build. It's practically what PoE build creation is all about!

Especially in Hardcore, if I can squeeze out enough damage in fewer points, then I can invest more in defenses.

Just saying "it's good enough, even though it seems we can get more" doesn't make sense to me.

"

believe me i am a power hungry freak for my minions and when you play hc all you need is maximizing your own hp not your minions. especially now its harder to do a hc golem char. i simply would not recommend.

when it comes to optimizing damage. as i said i tried everything and to maximize your golem damage you will always have to sacrifice something from your own defence.and now when you die your golems are utterly useless. so you should also optimize your own defence.

concerning jewels : just get 15% recovery and stack as much as possible. my number is 9 and as i said they are strong enough to clear all the content.

"

This is not true at all. You need a balance like everything. Dead enemies don't do damage, so you need good clearspeed and bosskilling as well as defense

"

Nothing at all has changed to make golems more difficult to play in Hardcore, I was just playing one earlier this league, could you elaborate?

"

PoE is all about tradeoffs, which is why optimization is so important. We need to understand the mechanics to get the proper DPS values for cooldown and cast speed, that way we can make the optimal decision on what and how many jewels to run.

"

This has been the theory so far, but it seems like mixing in eminences (Or some other abyss cast speed jewels) are better after a certain point because you aren't cooldown capped anymore.

Hi :)

It's best to optimize for own game style, but it might not always be most suitable for some other player. There is lots of tuning between :
- Golems <-> Golems + SPecs
- AG <-> No AG
- Necro Aegis <-> Shield and max block
- High ES Boots <-> Bone of Ulr (+1 Spec)
- Vertex or other High ES helmet <-> Pseudo 6l helmet
- Stacking Harmonies <-> Stacking Rare jewels with HP / ES and minion damage
- HP <-> Hybrid <-> ES
- Spell Totem <-> Cast while Channeling

And those are only the most important ones. Default guide tries to be nice balance between everything, but in the end all builds should be experimented and optimized for own needs.

It might be impossible to verify how Golems really work if we don't reply from GGG. However stacking Harmonies has been tested the most and I would be very careful in adding Eminenses to the mix as they seem to do very little.

"

I've just hit 100 on Abyss. Golems <3

Hey and gz on level 100! \o/

Your first level 100 this league. It's a long grind to lvl 100 but worth it ^^

"

Following your guide, level 57 and running good so far. Maybe adjust your recommended gems for Flame Sentinels from GMP to Volley. Otherwise this guide is what other guides should look like. Lol :D

Thanks!

Hello :)

It's pretty time consuming to take care of such massive guide, so all thread feedback from you guys has helped me massively ^^

It's as good as I got tons of ideas and fixes from guide followers. Ill add Volley to Flame Sentinels as soon as I get back home. It has been tested and works lot better than GMP with those spesific Specs. Thanks for fix!

"

Think I'm about ready to try out those TV specs. I got this helm for 25C and used a divine orb on it.

Verified


Would you recommend going back to the bone boots for +1 spec? I like not dying with all the extra ES I have now, but I just hit 93 so I think I'm gonna have fun and not worry about leveling for a little while. Also, I think if I like it, I'll respec to the spec ascendancy as well.

Also, had no idea about the gems, I've been doing it backwards :/

Hey :)

The helmet starts to look really nice. Not sure if Bones are worth +1 TV. The boots suck defensively and even 2x 6l TVs specs will melt any boss in moments. It's huge tradeoff between some extra damage and lots of tankiness.

I have been running 3x TVs with Soul Weaver node, Bones and 6l helmet this league and they give massive boost to boss damage. I'm not running even Victarios Charity as the TVs are doing so much single target damage that I can focus on keeping max block up. Maybe dropping 1x TV and getting Rainbowstrides or other decent ES boots would be good trade between defense and DPS.

Pure Golems and 4l AG and Golems + Specs are both very fun but different builds to play. I recommend trying both and checking what combination works best for your playstyle ;)

"

hey ive got a math question about golems:
i was using 6 golems as an elementarist

4flame
1light (buff)
1stone (buff)

and like 8 gems witch buff 20%golem damage for each golem type so 60%per gem.

so that alone is 480% golem damage. with 4 golems.

+90%minion damage from tree = 570% with 4.

so how much damage do i lose when using 6 golems of one type ?


thats 250%golem damage with 6 golems
2 more golems is like +33%damage but i lose 320% golem damage.

i know for a fact that the 4/1/1 is more damage cuz some ppl did the math

but how much more is it ?

not sure if i want to make another elementarist with just 6 (same type) golems or a summoner.

Hi :)

Stacking "increased damage" as only source of damage starts to lose its benefits pretty fast. Even if you get absurd values from mixing Golems, the total DPS difference with all damage mods might 10-20% total damage.

It's best to import your char or planned char in Pob and check Golem damage there. I have done all kinds of mixes and tests with Necro vs Ele with 4, 4+1, 4+1+1, 5+1, 6x Golems and not seem much DPS boost at high levels and gear compared just to 4x Golems + Charity.

This is not really a math answer but you can do the math with Path of Building easily. Just my own experience tells that it has little benefits.

UPDATE

"Nafet" is first level 100 player this league ^^

Huge gz and welcome to lvl 100 club! ;)

I don't agree with statements saying golementalist are weaker or whatever in previous posts (won't quote them, hard with a phone :P)

Disclaimer: I play golementalist since harbinger, not cheesing bosses (because that sucks tbh) without much problems and did all content but chayula and hogm (and used this current build as my base build to make my own modifications). You can check my abyss char if.you want to take a look.

Sure necromancer have good ascendencies : damage boost, aura boost (res+dmg) and the fact that offering also buff the character (most important buff IMO).
To compensate these differences elementalists have 1 more golem and golem elemental immunity. You have then almost, if not the same dps and golem survivability.

Major difference is now your own character: necromancer with bone offering have an easier survivability due to offerings that give block chance and Regen on block, which I don't have.
On the contrary, I don't rely at all on block / armor but 100% on evasion / Dodge (thanks potions) and using cwdt + phase run for example since I don't use offerings at all.
You also have one less Spectre if you play golems + tukohama vanguard like I do.

I don't argue one is better than another, IMHO elementalists also allow more changes, since you don't need some passives / gems, but it's just different playstyle for a same base build.
I'm also pretty sure my own character can still be really improved :)

Been playing this build for a while now and not sure what to upgrade next. I saved up about 400c. Any pieces in my equipment that are especially bad?
My thought on the next upgrade was presence of chayula for some magic find ( or where could i squeeze in some magic find in this build?) oder empower level 4.

What is the order of importance for jewels after the Anima Stone and the three primordial jewels?

First Primordial Harmonies or Cobalt Jewels?

What gems should I use in that item with Vanguards? Is it good as it is? Also - can I check spectres stats/dps somehow? Can't see mine on PoB's spectre list :c

Could anyone have a look at my character and passives for how to get more survivability and general tips?

nvm

"

Anakhon wrote:

I don't agree with statements saying golementalist are weaker or whatever in previous posts (won't quote them, hard with a phone :P)

Disclaimer: I play golementalist since harbinger, not cheesing bosses (because that sucks tbh) without much problems and did all content but chayula and hogm (and used this current build as my base build to make my own modifications). You can check my abyss char if.you want to take a look.

Sure necromancer have good ascendencies : damage boost, aura boost (res+dmg) and the fact that offering also buff the character (most important buff IMO).
To compensate these differences elementalists have 1 more golem and golem elemental immunity. You have then almost, if not the same dps and golem survivability.

Major difference is now your own character: necromancer with bone offering have an easier survivability due to offerings that give block chance and Regen on block, which I don't have.
On the contrary, I don't rely at all on block / armor but 100% on evasion / Dodge (thanks potions) and using cwdt + phase run for example since I don't use offerings at all.
You also have one less Spectre if you play golems + tukohama vanguard like I do.

I don't argue one is better than another, IMHO elementalists also allow more changes, since you don't need some passives / gems, but it's just different playstyle for a same base build.
I'm also pretty sure my own character can still be really improved :)

Hey :)

Both classes work great when you know what you are doing. Necro has just more useful ascendancy nodes
in total. Anyway GGG said that they are redesigning Elementalist in near future, so I'm waiting to see what buffs Golem side of Ele gets.

"

Been playing this build for a while now and not sure what to upgrade next. I saved up about 400c. Any pieces in my equipment that are especially bad?
My thought on the next upgrade was presence of chayula for some magic find ( or where could i squeeze in some magic find in this build?) oder empower level 4.

"

Could anyone have a look at my character and passives for how to get more survivability and general tips?

Hi :)

Manking1337 ->

Your second rare jewels doesn't have all ele res for minions. If you get presence of Chayula, you dont need chaos res that much on other gear, but if you want to go with rares for MF, make sure some of them have 20-30% chaos res to help you cap.

Edeka ->

Your belt and left rings don't have any ES, that's single most important stat for EHP (HP + ES). Other than that, your gear looks pretty good. Going for max block will increase survivability massively while costing only some clear speed.

You both can start customization the build for your own playstyle. Good alternatives are :

- Adding Tukohama Vanguard Specters instead of Animate Guardian (Changing curse gems to rainbowstrides or bones of ulr (+1 level to gems corrupt if possible), adding TV specs to rare elder helmet with minion damage support and burning damage support, taking "Soul Weaver" ascenancy)

- Adding Max Block (Dropping Necromantic Aegis, taking spell block rare shield or Rathpith, casting Storm Burst -> Cast When Channeling -> Desecrate -> Bone Offer)

- Adding second active curse which scales with quality (Taking "Sovereignty" with lower reservation nodes, adding enfeeble / elemental weakness to blasphemy -> enhance -> temp chains links.)

- Tweaking with cast of damage taken links (immortal call, frost fall, tempest shield, etc)

You can check my league char for the links and good gear alternatives ;)

"

What is the order of importance for jewels after the Anima Stone and the three primordial jewels?

First Primordial Harmonies or Cobalt Jewels?

Hello :)

Optimal order if not leveling would be :
- Anima Stone
- Primordial might
- 2x Harmonies with 15% cooldown on second line and 20% damage
n one package to let you summon 4x Golems out.

Then adding 2x rare jewels with :
- 10% Minion elemental resistance
- 15% increased minion damage / added minion fire damage
- ES
- HP / All ele res for character

Rest of the jewels can be Harmonies with as much cooldown reduction as possible on second line and maybe 19-20% increased damage.

IF you are leveling get the 1-2x rare jewels earlier to cap zombies / specters res.

"

What gems should I use in that item with Vanguards? Is it good as it is? Also - can I check spectres stats/dps somehow? Can't see mine on PoB's spectre list :c

Hey :)

With Vanguards most important gems are :
Spec -> Minion Damage -> Burning Damage -> Elemental Focus -> Swift Affliction -> Minion Resistance

If you can get minion damage and burning damage in helmet, you can link rest as :
Spec -> Elemental Focus -> Swift Affliction -> Minion Resistance

You cant really check their damage, but they are doing tons of single target even with 4 link. You will notice it immediately if you add high level TVs in boss fights ;)

But elemental focus has line:

"

Supported Skills cannot inflict Elemental Ailments

Isn't it ruining ignite effect and lowing some of dps? Also - do you know where to get high level Vanguards? Currently I have t12 or something.