Solo Self-Found Support in 2.6.0

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Erasculio wrote:

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ghoulavenger wrote:

I can sympathize with that point of view since the game is balanced on trading. However I've been playing mostly self found since before forsaken masters. You get everything you need with playtime. The drop rates are fine. The expectation is that if you're serious about SSF you'll get everything you need simply by playing the game. Your first build won't be what you want it to be, since it'll have to match what you find. Your second and third builds will have much more flexibility.

My issue isn't really with magic or rare items, but with the uniques.

Someone could easily reply, "just play the game without those uniques". That would be like playing the game with only half the skill gems, especially considering how cheap many of those items are on the player market (again, many are cheaper than skill gems).

IMO, GGG should add a way for players to get those items in a SSF league, even if it's harder or more expensive than in the common leagues. And then move the "opt out" characters exclusively to the standard league, to avoid messing with the economy of the temporary leagues.

Yeah I don't think SSF would fit you very well. "Just play the game without uniques" is exactly how you start. Your first build is whatever you can make work based on what you find. If you're playing a meta skill, maybe you can make a gimped version and build into what you want. Your second and third build are far more forgiving because most uniques can be deterministically farmed with orbs of chance. The only ones that can't be, are the ones that drop from specific loot tables -- which may or may not be impossible within a reasonable time frame.

But you haven't addressed the real problem that I posed. Many people that play SSF fit into one of two categories:

1. People that play for a more significant challenge.
2. People that don't trade.

An improved drop rate will actually harm the audience that wants a more significant challenge. People that don't trade won't care either way if the drop rates are better because they don't have any alternative that isn't trade.

By the way, if the opt out exists whatsoever, I won't be in favor of increasing drop rates, whether they opt out to standard OR to the leagues. Because you're basically encouraging people to abuse the increased drop rates. If the opt out didn't exist I would entertain the idea, not saying I would support it, but I wouldn't be absolutely against it.

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ghoulavenger wrote:

But you haven't addressed the real problem that I posed. Many people that play SSF fit into one of two categories:

1. People that play for a more significant challenge.
2. People that don't trade.

IMO, both would be suited to a SSF with limited increased drop rate.

Trading and playing in a party make PoE incredibly easy. You can keep the current drop rate for stuff that increases power - tier 1 mods, for example - while increasing the drop rate for things that increase build diversity - like the build defining uniques. It would continue to be a challenge compared to the common leagues, since characters wouldn't be more powerful than today's SSF, but rather more diverse.

And for those who play SSF because they don't trade and not because they don't want a challenge, it's rather obvious that PoE has been balanced around the idea of trading, as has been said in this topic. Removing the need to trade in order to play PoE as it was designed to be would only apease this group of players.

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ghoulavenger wrote:

Your second and third build are far more forgiving because most uniques can be deterministically farmed with orbs of chance. The only ones that can't be, are the ones that drop from specific loot tables -- which may or may not be impossible within a reasonable time frame.

I have been playing almost exclusively SSF. I never got an unique item through an Orb of Chance :P

The only unique I got that way was an unique strongbox.

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Erasculio wrote:

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ghoulavenger wrote:

But you haven't addressed the real problem that I posed. Many people that play SSF fit into one of two categories:

1. People that play for a more significant challenge.
2. People that don't trade.

IMO, both would be suited to a SSF with limited increased drop rate.

Trading and playing in a party make PoE incredibly easy. You can keep the current drop rate for stuff that increases power - tier 1 mods, for example - while increasing the drop rate for things that increase build diversity - like the build defining uniques. It would continue to be a challenge compared to the common leagues, since characters wouldn't be more powerful than today's SSF, but rather more diverse.

I'm pretty sure that people that want a more challenging experience will ixnay any increased drop rates period no matter how restricted they are. It isn't about power, it's about changing the experience. The slow accumulation of build defining uniques is part of it. If it feels no worse than trading then you've done and screwed them over.

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Erasculio wrote:

And for those who play SSF because they don't trade and not because they don't want a challenge, it's rather obvious that PoE has been balanced around the idea of trading, as has been said in this topic. Removing the need to trade in order to play PoE as it was designed to be would only apease this group of players.

These people are looking for a better TRADE experience, which ironically is not having one. How would improving the drop rates appease these people?

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Erasculio wrote:

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ghoulavenger wrote:

Your second and third build are far more forgiving because most uniques can be deterministically farmed with orbs of chance. The only ones that can't be, are the ones that drop from specific loot tables -- which may or may not be impossible within a reasonable time frame.

I have been playing almost exclusively SSF. I never got an unique item through an Orb of Chance :P

The only unique I got that way was an unique strongbox.

Since I started trying I've chanced a pair of Skyforths, and a couple of Malachai's Artifices (then found the Essence Worm and laughed about it). I'm currently working on the Tukohama's Fortress shield. That was a fairly recent start to boot, I've only been doing it since last league give or take.

I'm glad to see they're at least adding a SFL.

I think it's an ever steeper penalty than playing on HC considering how ridiculously rare decent drops are in this game, and you're giving up not trading. They could at least raise the drop rates a little bit for SFL players. Like count SFL players as 2 people when it calculates the drops.

Double the odds of slots/links when crafting.
Increase the weight for better mods via orbs.

Make people commit to SFL, etc you'll get some bonuses, but you can't ever trade those items into a normal league.

I think what people want is something that's a little easier than playing the regular game without trading, but it will never be as fast as progressing in the regular game by trading.

Let me preface my remarks first. I like this game very much and I think GGG for the most part has done an outstanding job. Thus, I come from a fanboy (if you will) standpoint.

My only long-term issues with the game have been about trading. I wish they would make it more painless. Alternately, I was fine with a dedicated server for self-found where they bump up the drops (let's say double).

So, I see a developer post and I was, ok we are getting somewhere. NOT. WTF? I'm just floored. What?

it's optional, players who used to play SSF now no need to register/range ladder at 3rd part webside.

They're hoping that eventually people will find it repulsive and shop instead.

Then they can say, "we tried self found and discovered that only a tiny vocal minority liked it". With improved drop rates, only a tiny vocal minority would bother with the economy anymore.

GGG, above ALL else, LOVES the economy stuff.

There will never be anything added to PoE that will make path of economy the less viable option.

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I have always felt that self found would help GGG with stash tab sales since folks would horde more stuff. But, in order to have a "viable" self found server they need to have no possibility of reverting back to standard. That's what really surprised me in the post (they are not doing that).

I think that GGG could get away with not transferring the stash tabs already bought on the regular accounts. People might complain and gripe a bit about buying the tabs again, but if they make the self found server attractive enough I think it would be a nice revenue stream assuming that the technology and staff time required isn't too extensive.

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Chris wrote:

Please let us know if you have any feedback on this system!

how telling this quote is. tell us whether you have feedback but we already know we're not gonna consider it but implement this exactly as already decided LOL

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Arcis wrote:

afaik, the main reason people want a SSF league is so the game doesn't have to be balanced around the fact that trading will always be much more efficient than soloing. if there are no additional benefits to playing SSF, i think this has missed the point.

this, too

and I bet there's not gonna be a ssf standard/hardcore, even though that fact is conveniently not mentioned in wilson's post