[3.17] For Slayer / Champion - Ngamahu Cyclone / Consecrated Path / Tectonic Slam

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DaveNotDave wrote:

Hi! First of all many thanks for this guide, it is very clear and comprehensive including a lot of custom options. I was playing a wander but due to the vaal pact nerf I would like to go with this build in the Abyss league. Is it a good league starter? I know a lot of things without proper patch notes are speculative but would you recommend this playing in the Abyss league?

Thanks,
Dave

Was my starter on Harbinger(though i started late september) and on Turmoil, it's pretty faceroll tbh, Ngamahu's is a bit expensive first few days but you can start maps with Hezmana/Kaom's Primacy which should be 1chaos and a 4L cyclone, though 5L is pretty easy to get.

Sunder for leveling and swap whenever you feel comfortable and can sustain the mana cost.

While you don't have Ngamahu's i highly recommend skipping the Lava Lash cluster, only grab that if you have full conversion from Ngamahu's + Avatar of Fire/Xoph's Blood.

Meanwhile, get something like Hematophagy instead, with Brutal Fervour + Vitality Void + Hemotophagy your leech is pretty much comparable to VP, and focusing on HP (After capped resists) + fortify, there isn't really any real risk as long as you play smart.

Once you get a Ngamahu's, 6 socket it asap, then you can work on Avatar of Fire if you want damage, i've played the build all the way up to level 90~ and hitting T15's without AoF, doing 50phys/50fire damage, also using Enfeeble instead of Flammability.

By playing like that your damage will be a bit lower (mobs are 1/2 shot and bosses don't take long anyway), but you can run both Physical and Elemental reflect maps (though it's getting reworked, saved me a lot currency since i didn't need to reroll maps)without worries, and have some QoL on tree or more life%.

Just want to confirm Ngamahu Cyclone is easily one of the best starting builds out there.

I'm playing playing a similar version in Mayhem, but went with a QOTF for the movespeed, and having a Jade/Stibnite flask is just really helpful. Well, mostly the stib, but being able to cyclone in circles and under a smoke cloud is really op for most boss fights. Anyway, the only other time I've played Cyclone was Disfavour/Kaoms and was wondering what kind of movespeed do you get with Bronn's?

Also, I'm always a little curious as to why some of these builds don't go for forces of nature? It's not too far from primeval force (which is a must for almost all elemental builds imo), and has good nodes along the way--Socket, +1 Frenzy & inc ev% per frenzy, acrobatics, Revenge of the Hunted, and even the +1 max cold res.

Anyway, really well put together guide! I'm thinking about starting abyss with a Ngamahu Cyclone/Slayer, so I think I'll finish out Mayhem by just trying a bunch of different things.

Here's my tree that I'm using and that utilizes Forces of Nature: http://poeurl.com/bDe2 The damage is really good and I think it only loses a few %s of life. Just was wondering your opinion.

Thanks, and once again really great thread.

Edit: Also forgot to include this earlier but I've been using Damage on Full Life in my Weapon in replacement of Added Fire. Seems to work considering the build out-regens blood rage and the endless leech restores any damage taken incredibly fast even when not attacking. Was wondering if you tried this and just didn't like it, or just been playing it safe with added fire? Once again, just curious your opinion.

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datbabykilla wrote:

Also, I'm always a little curious as to why some of these builds don't go for forces of nature?

Here's my tree that I'm using and that utilizes Forces of Nature: http://poeurl.com/bDe2 The damage is really good and I think it only loses a few %s of life. Just was wondering your opinion.

Personal preference but i'd say its waaay too far to be worth it, also you're losing out a lot of int, aoe, life %, all res% etc, all that stuff helps a TON with gearing and getting enough of everything.

Damage on full life is alright for slayers, great damage and it's consistent, not 100% uptime but close to.

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datbabykilla wrote:

Also, I'm always a little curious as to why some of these builds don't go for forces of nature? It's not too far from primeval force (which is a must for almost all elemental builds imo), and has good nodes along the way--Socket, +1 Frenzy & inc ev% per frenzy, acrobatics, Revenge of the Hunted, and even the +1 max cold res.

I put it into Path of Building to see. With my probably mediocre implementation of the build, Forces of Nature grants an additional 10887 DPS, at 1209 per point invested because of the large point investment to get up there. Taking Slaughter, which the tree is already adjacent to, grants 14750 DPS, at 2950 per point invested. Plus the nodes leading up to Slaughter grant attack speed, which help proc Molten Burst more often.
Of course you're free to path that way if you prefer it, but I just don't think it's worth the points when there are better nodes closer already.

Hello all,

Been playing various Ngamahu builds quite a lot. Finished yesterday with Mayhem and ended with the following, does anyone have any pointers for more efficiency?

https://pastebin.com/ggd96NdS

With a bit more accuracy in gear could have specced out of Versatility and if I had quality on my Cyclone I could have remove the area node near amplify and gotten rid of Elementalist. Gameplay was really fast, basicly leveled to 90 running port and underground river just blazing through the map with all flasks up all the time. Usually used flammability but tried Grace a now and then, feeling out the dmg. (Didnt bother with trials so no uberlab). In the end got around 130m xp/hr while mapping. The extra nodes would have probably gone towards life.

Would have liked to 5 offcolour queen and replace faster attacks with damage on full life but didnt have the chromes.

Couple of things I don't really understand in how people path, whats the love with Thick skin? Also why do people take Vitality void instead of Hematophagy (Hema gives 20% increased damage and more life leech rate which is the bottleneck for just one extra point).

As a comparison a lot more decked out Harb Ngamahus running Biscos most of the time (could use ideas here as well):
https://pastebin.com/BxEsvf1x

Actually should prolly redo the very first nodes here and go through the phys dmg instead of attack speed.

and yea 20 quality gems, vaaling didnt work out =)

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Hiwteyh wrote:

Couple of things I don't really understand in how people path, whats the love with Thick skin? Also why do people take Vitality void instead of Hematophagy (Hema gives 20% increased damage and more life leech rate which is the bottleneck for just one extra point).

Thick Skin gives an average of 5.5% increased life per node so it's better than putting those points into the Scion life wheel, and it gives 8% chance to avoid elemental ailments on top as well.
And we don't take Hematophagy because this build exclusively deals fire damage. Wouldn't make much sense to take a node that increases physical attack damage leech instead of attack damage leech when we don't deal any physical damage.

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Nuraihyon wrote:

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Hiwteyh wrote:

Couple of things I don't really understand in how people path, whats the love with Thick skin? Also why do people take Vitality void instead of Hematophagy (Hema gives 20% increased damage and more life leech rate which is the bottleneck for just one extra point).

Thick Skin gives an average of 5.5% increased life per node so it's better than putting those points into the Scion life wheel, and it gives 8% chance to avoid elemental ailments on top as well.
And we don't take Hematophagy because this build exclusively deals fire damage. Wouldn't make much sense to take a node that increases physical attack damage leech instead of attack damage leech when we don't deal any physical damage.

Thick skin gives average of 4,5% cause you also have to take the dext node on the way to it. 22% / 5 = 4.5%. You also have to take all 5 points for that effectiveness. Using my Mayhem char as an example, picking up Devotion for same 5 points (cause I already am specced into elementalist). 5519 life atm, picking up Thick skin = 5942, picking up devotion: 5971 + it gives you aura effectiveness and 40 strength which is also dmg increase for both your cyclone and your balls. Also gives you access to 2 point jewel socket.

Once you have decent damage you have enough leech anyway so that your leech is hard capped by life leech rate and not by your attack damage leeched as life. I know the phys leech doesnt do anything but it doesnt matter. Check PoB. Taking the attack damage leeched as life node in vitality void doesnt give you any more leech cause you are capped by life leech rate, only the life leech rate gives you more. So what you get from vitality void cluster is 5% more life leech rate for 2 points (or 3 if you have mana leech anywhere else) and what you get from Hematophagy is 8% more lifeleech rate + 20% increased damage.

Base is 20%, then possibly additions, Vitality Void 5%, Hema 8%. Brutal Fervour gives 10%. Then possible soul of arakaali gives 50% increase. So 20+10 = 30% for all slayers. Then if you have Hema you have 38%, or with vitality void 35% or with both 43%. Then 50% increase to that when bloodrate soul of arakaali shenanigans so 30 becomes 45% etc.

Numbers wise using my Harb Slayer as an example which takes both I have 2500 Lifeleech rate, with Pantheon proc it becomes around 3800 life leeched per second.

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Hiwteyh wrote:

Thick skin gives average of 4,5% cause you also have to take the dext node on the way to it. 22% / 5 = 4.5%. You also have to take all 5 points for that effectiveness. Using my Mayhem char as an example, picking up Devotion for same 5 points (cause I already am specced into elementalist). 5519 life atm, picking up Thick skin = 5942, picking up devotion: 5971 + it gives you aura effectiveness and 40 strength which is also dmg increase for both your cyclone and your balls. Also gives you access to 2 point jewel socket.

I guess you decided against grabbing one of the highest DPS nodes for us on the tree, Primeval Force? Fair enough.
But for those who didn't, you can't count that dex node against it, because it was grabbed either way.
Also, which tree are you using? Because all of them for this build has you grabbing Devotion regardless, so I'm not sure why you're presenting it as mutually exclusive with Thick Skin. Or are you proposing you need to not take Catalyse, Devotion, and that jewel socket just to take Thick Skin?

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Hiwteyh wrote:

Once you have decent damage you have enough leech anyway so that your leech is hard capped by life leech rate and not by your attack damage leeched as life. I know the phys leech doesnt do anything but it doesnt matter. Check PoB. Taking the attack damage leeched as life node in vitality void doesnt give you any more leech cause you are capped by life leech rate, only the life leech rate gives you more. So what you get from vitality void cluster is 5% more life leech rate for 2 points (or 3 if you have mana leech anywhere else) and what you get from Hematophagy is 8% more lifeleech rate + 20% increased damage.

Base is 20%, then possibly additions, Vitality Void 5%, Hema 8%. Brutal Fervour gives 10%. Then possible soul of arakaali gives 50% increase. So 20+10 = 30% for all slayers. Then if you have Hema you have 38%, or with vitality void 35% or with both 43%. Then 50% increase to that when bloodrate soul of arakaali shenanigans so 30 becomes 45% etc.

Numbers wise using my Harb Slayer as an example which takes both I have 2500 Lifeleech rate, with Pantheon proc it becomes around 3800 life leeched per second.

That's not the case at all for me. Check PoB.
Where are you getting your leech from, just the .4% from the Slayer ascendancy? I get it that I called my implementation of the build mediocre, but come on. I'm at 1753 with Vitality Void and 1259 with Hematophagy. Where, precisely, is your leech coming from?

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Milomir wrote:

here, Numlock Leap Slam Trick

i seriously doubt this would get you banned

Thanks for the link!

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Phosphenez wrote:

^ What he posted
I'm pretty sure i would have died many many times without it haha, it delays the leap and screws up pretty bad, i always play with Attack in place 'toggled' now, makes all characters gameplay feel more responsive.

Thank you too for mentioning it. Learnt new things there. :)

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Hiwteyh wrote:

Once you have decent damage you have enough leech anyway so that your leech is hard capped by life leech rate and not by your attack damage leeched as life. I know the phys leech doesnt do anything but it doesnt matter. Check PoB. Taking the attack damage leeched as life node in vitality void doesnt give you any more leech cause you are capped by life leech rate, only the life leech rate gives you more. So what you get from vitality void cluster is 5% more life leech rate for 2 points (or 3 if you have mana leech anywhere else) and what you get from Hematophagy is 8% more lifeleech rate + 20% increased damage.

Base is 20%, then possibly additions, Vitality Void 5%, Hema 8%. Brutal Fervour gives 10%. Then possible soul of arakaali gives 50% increase. So 20+10 = 30% for all slayers. Then if you have Hema you have 38%, or with vitality void 35% or with both 43%. Then 50% increase to that when bloodrate soul of arakaali shenanigans so 30 becomes 45% etc.

Numbers wise using my Harb Slayer as an example which takes both I have 2500 Lifeleech rate, with Pantheon proc it becomes around 3800 life leeched per second.

Though it is true that with high damage, you can drop life leech % but high life leech % is definitely not a bad thing. From Wiki:

Leech duration

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The leech recovery duration is how long in seconds a leech instance has to last to recover the entirety of the damage leeched.[5] It can be found by dividing the percent damage inflicted that is leeched by the leech recovery rate.

duration = damage dealt * % damage leeched / (max health * 0.02)

The above shows that high damage + high leech % = longer leech duration. It allows you to keep the leech going which is very good in tough fights like Shaper where you need to re-position quite frequently.

I would say 2 points for Vitality Void > 3 points for Hematophagy.

For 3 points spent on Hematophagy, what you really gain will be the 8% maximum leech rate and 20% increased damage while leeching whereas, 2 points on Vitality Void gives you 1.2% Damage leeched as life and 5% maximum leech rate.

As for the damage gained from Hematophagy, picking up Wrecking Ball will benefit the build more because besides physical damage, it also gives you more attack speed.

An important thing to note, the build benefit greatly from higher attack speed as it scales better. You can easily test this out using POB. :)

@Kira:

The length of the leech instance is good point, didnt think of that (didnt actually remember it even though read about it sometime). Was taking wrecking ball but specced into life when died at level 88 (SC mayhem). Checking it now would have been better to take it instead of the accuracy nodes. You make good points overall, exactly what I wanted to discuss. At this point this is just theorycrafting for me as I gave away all my equipment in mayhem already once I hit 90 =)

@Nura:
Couldnt find your PoB link in the past 4 pages at least, checking your profile but hard to see everything exactly, personally from links I would do fortify on leapslap and use increased area instead of concentrated effect (swap in conc for bosses if you feel like you need it, personally didnt feel that cause I doubt you are running guardians / shaper in mayhem). The Breach ring seems very bad dmg wise, quick search seems to have clear cut upgrades on poe.trade for 10 chaos (70 life, 60 total resists, physdmg or elemental dmg). Also personally like Slaughter quite a bit as a node cause it means 100% uptime on onslaught even if no rares or uniques around. Also dont think the 8% area node gives you extra range at this point so could swap it over for 8% increased elemental damage node.

Actually speccing out of all of the elementalist, devotion catalyse nodes and speccing into slaughter and the jewel node there + golems blood would give you clear damage increase.

And to answer your question regarding leech, the one dual node in vitality void + ascendandy.