[2.6] THE DISCIPLINER: 2.2k Base ES Aura, 10 Auras, 4 Curses, Insane Defenses Support Mana Guardian

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tainium wrote:

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PsychicMuffin wrote:

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I'll tinker around with the skill tree at a later point and see what I can do with it. Maybe I can get some ES nodes, maybe I can use something like Conqueror's Efficiency to improve our auras, or maybe just more mana.

Any chance you might share with us that tweaked (beta?) tree?

Actually, I have some disheartening news. It turns out that not only are grand spectrum jewels now limited, but the limit is 3 TOTAL jewels, not 3 of each kind, meaning you can have 3 GS mana jewels and no other GS jewels to scale it. That...effectively destroys this build in its current form. The whole point of me making it was I discovered a better way to get mana than the old Ruz's mana guardian build, which used all healthy mind jewels and lots of %mana from skill tree, and flat mana on gear. Now that approach is really the only way to make a good mana guardian, which forces the player to make a lot of uncomfortable decisions and sacrifices to maintain a decent mana pool, AND requires excellent gear as getting t1 flat mana and t2+ int on each rare is extremely important.

The mana guardian is certainly not dead, but this build will have to be massively reworked to function in 3.0. I'll see what I can make for it at some point, but so far I've honestly been too disheartened to go through with it.

I'm new to mana guardian and want to see if it will work in 3.0. Here's my novice Path of Building try for level 72 with the new Grand Spectrum jewels.

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PsychicMuffin wrote:

Actually, I have some disheartening news. It turns out that not only are grand spectrum jewels now limited, but the limit is 3 TOTAL jewels, not 3 of each kind, meaning you can have 3 GS mana jewels and no other GS jewels to scale it. That...effectively destroys this build in its current form. The whole point of me making it was I discovered a better way to get mana than the old Ruz's mana guardian build, which used all healthy mind jewels and lots of %mana from skill tree, and flat mana on gear. Now that approach is really the only way to make a good mana guardian, which forces the player to make a lot of uncomfortable decisions and sacrifices to maintain a decent mana pool, AND requires excellent gear as getting t1 flat mana and t2+ int on each rare is extremely important.

The mana guardian is certainly not dead, but this build will have to be massively reworked to function in 3.0. I'll see what I can make for it at some point, but so far I've honestly been too disheartened to go through with it.

Even with healthy mind 20 % converting some life can't work? (in strategic position, near duelist area or witch, near heart and soul, mana and life, mana (Deep Thoughts) and the life (Cruel Preparation) near mana?) still cant work?

do you think will become too expensive with t1 flat mana and t2+ int?

If you theorycraft, and find a workaround, some alternatives to keep The Discipliner Big Boy Defensive Aura Boy alive, will be great.

Thank you PsychicMuffin.

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tainium wrote:

I'm new to mana guardian and want to see if it will work in 3.0. Here's my novice Path of Building try for level 72 with the new Grand Spectrum jewels.

Spoiler

Some of the items and pathing are influenced by my crazy idea to have this run Righteous Fire as an optional skill for leveling/soloing. Far from perfect, but I hope to keep this build conversation moving towards 3.0!

https://pastebin.com/VQC84MAi

base stats
4.2k mana
290% mana from tree
2.7k ES
90% ES from tree

I like the concept, and I actually did have a pair of swap gloves with the essence enchant for ele damage that I used to do the occasional prophecy, but honestly it was just better to level an alt character, and I wasn't willing to sacrifice any support aspect since honestly there's no really good way to do it. As for your tree and stuff, unfortunately a LOT of things had to change, and the tree is quite different than it used to be. I have a work in progress update that is going surprisingly well that I can share in a sec here.

Ok! Sorry to leave you guys hanging, I was just working on this update slowly but I think I finally cracked it. On the downside, it's a little more expensive as we need a specific lab helm enchant (or rather, one of a group of options), a level 3 enlighten, and the rares are a little tricker to get best in slot. Also we only tri-curse instead of quad, and our mana aura is still only 1300 instead of 1700.

On the upside, we have 10k more armour, 2k MORE energy shield (YEP, we are at 12k ES now), better mobility with quicksilver and shield charge, FORTIFY!, +1 max fire/cold res, and +2 max lightning res! Also, if you really want to quad curse you can drop a ring for doedre's damning, although it will cost you 60 base es from your aura, 600 final ES of your character, and some physical mitigation/regen from dropping clarity aura.

Path of Building Pastebin

If you don't use PoB you probably should, but you can check out the Tree and Aura Calc if you'd like, although some things might not make total sense without seeing the items/skill slots.

I won't post this to the main page yet as it's still a work in progress, plus there's a big balance overhaul coming next week which could change a lot, but let me know what you guys think.

This is great news, thanks for sharing! I like what you've achieved so far.


The lower left Healthy Mind seems the least impactful. What about this version of your PoB setup for a lower-level tree and skipping that HM jewel? (Also removed the curse nodes as I'm not a big curser) https://pastebin.com/z4nXuk8e

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tainium wrote:

This is great news, thanks for sharing! I like what you've achieved so far.


The lower left Healthy Mind seems the least impactful. What about this version of your PoB setup for a lower-level tree and skipping that HM jewel? (Also removed the curse nodes as I'm not a big curser) https://pastebin.com/z4nXuk8e

I guess if you never thought you'd get past 80 that's a quick way to get a bunch of mana. The problem is there are just so many inefficiencies. You have to take 2 str nodes (or get a bunch more str on gear), a 3 point jewel with attack speed pathing, and a ton of 8% mana nodes, and you lose Elemental Equilibrium and nearly half the ES regen, just to be slightly better in the low 80s. I agree that a downside of my build is that it has a bit of a build up to hit max potential, but I think you're trading too much to try and ease the problem, as you still have to waste 5 pathing points to get out of templar start.

On a side note: Despite all the nerfs to curses, temp chains + enfeeble is still completely broken on bosses, and then you'll probably want at least 1 offensive curse for your party since the guardian has limited clear speed contribution as compared to necro supports, so I can't realistically recommend anything less than tri-curse, as to me it defeats the purpose of this build, but hey to each his own. Also, the Alchemist flask cluster in witch is one of the most broken clusters on the path of exile passive tree. It grants us 10k armour (7k on your tree), +1 all max res, a bunch of move speed, and higher flask uptime.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm learning a lot from you and your build :)

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PsychicMuffin wrote:

let me know what you guys think.

Just dropping by to say Thank you PsychicMuffin, doing some real life stuff atm, i will check the changes as soon as i get more free time.

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tainium wrote:

Thanks for the feedback! I'm learning a lot from you and your build :)

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mirolino wrote:

Just dropping by to say Thank you PsychicMuffin, doing some real life stuff atm, i will check the changes as soon as i get more free time.

Happy to help guys! My goal is to never abandon the Discipliner =P. Also, I have to say that while I can't call this version better than the last version (losing a curse and 25% of our ES aura hurts a lot while also increasing the build cost), I am surprised and how well it does in the nerf-heavy 3.0 environment. It is significantly more mobile and tankier, so it's just as playable overall. Also, comparatively, the ES pool is insane...as we went from having 10k when most builds got 15k to having 12k when most builds will get 10k. That's kind of absurd.