[2.6] THE DISCIPLINER: 2.2k Base ES Aura, 10 Auras, 4 Curses, Insane Defenses Support Mana Guardian

Why dont you skill the "Constitution" HP Point at the Scion HP Circle? does the healthy mind jewel dont work on that point?

/edit

nvm :D you dont get that point with the jewel :)

I just wanted to comment and say what a fantastic build this was. I've played a slight variation on this build up until this evening in hardcore legacy (RIP, dangerous rogue exile at a bad time) and it's been fantastic. Some comments from my experience:

1) I'd strongly suggest taking the leadership node. The AOE nerf has hit auras pretty hard. Even when I had all of the aura area of effect nodes, radiant faith still had more range than the auras (although my auras were not level 20 yet).

2) Aura effects apply to the unwavering faith bonus. I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere in this forum (although I could have missed it), but this means that you (and allies!) get an absolutely insane amount of regen and physical damage reduction due to this ascendancy. This build already takes it in the most recent update, but note that ZO should be a no-brainer due to this. This is another reason to take all of the aura nodes (some of which are neglected in the guide) including the leadership node.

3) Grand Spectrum cobalt jewels are still pretty expensive in LHL (5-6 chaos). This means that gearing up can be pretty difficult. On the other hand, pretty much all of the starter uniques needed for the build are quite cheap.

4) I'd recommend, at least for starting, swapping out one of the Doedre's for a voideye. You get a lot of extra ES this way when you use it with discipline.

4) The biggest issue I have with this build is how late it comes online. I'm pretty sure (depending on your tree) you need to be in the 79-81 range before you can get reasonably comfortable (I died before then). Due to the quadratic scaling of the Grand Spectrum jewels, the build gets substantially better even as you inch towards 100, which is probably not a desirable feature (you'd rather have all of your core points/jewels in place by the mid-80s). You are quite squishy until level 80 or so, and not really strong until 90. You will need to have friends help to make leveling tolerable.

5) If I hadn't died and had the opportunity to finish this build, I would have probably gone voideye/shavronne's revelation/presense of chayula for the jewelry. While this gives up the cursing setup, it adds a ton of surivability and increases both the ES from discipline and mana by a reasonable amount.

Anyways, thanks for the build guide and comments to all who have provided input. I'm still a bit salty over ripping, but if I can get over it I'll give this another shot.

Can someone give me any tips what i should upgrade next?

Im playing Legacy HC!



Getting Vaal Haste and Vaal Disc today.

Also i DONT have any of the Grand Spectrum Jewels yet. Since they are expensive :(

Mostly gonna map with an Ele Buzzsaw friend soon.
How should i spend my income next?

Since Pychichmuffin is busy, I can try to answer some questions based on my experience with the league so far, do not expect an experienced person Like PsychicMuffin, last league he did all the breachlords, guardians and shaper !, 125/126 on the atlas, Of course, if he could respond to you guys, that would be a better answer, but i will try to help with my little experience.

Atm im level 87, 7.3k ES (6k without Shav) 10/11 Grand Spectrum allocated, 93/126 on atlas (didnt killed breachlords, guardians or shaper), using double curse atm Enfeeble + Frostbite (will change my armor colors later to dual curse Enfeeble + Temporal Chains), rallying Cry to give damage and Proc Prayer of Glory, Supporting a Frost Blades Assassin lvl 89,(You can verify my profile or his profile, Diegoad/ char HardasMothefucker_frost, mine is mirolino/ char Bagual_HardSupport).

"

DripDripDrop wrote:

Playing this build in Legacy SC with the setup on first page and a bit diffrent setup in HC. both chars are over lvl 70. in hc it is lvl 77. My friend uses Witchfire Brew and i´m running temp chains on blasphemy. have no shavs in hc so i´m at 3.3k ES but it is quit tanky. Thanks for this build

Really nice Drip, doing good, i dont know about hc, onyl sc, this build really shines in later levels, grand spectrum after grand spectrum (of course cause of scaling)

"

Pseudorandominator wrote:

I just wanted to comment and say what a fantastic build this was. I've played a slight variation on this build up until this evening in hardcore legacy (RIP, dangerous rogue exile at a bad time) and it's been fantastic. Some comments from my experience:

1) I'd strongly suggest taking the leadership node. The AOE nerf has hit auras pretty hard. Even when I had all of the aura area of effect nodes, radiant faith still had more range than the auras (although my auras were not level 20 yet).

2) Aura effects apply to the unwavering faith bonus. I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere in this forum (although I could have missed it), but this means that you (and allies!) get an absolutely insane amount of regen and physical damage reduction due to this ascendancy. This build already takes it in the most recent update, but note that ZO should be a no-brainer due to this. This is another reason to take all of the aura nodes (some of which are neglected in the guide) including the leadership node.

3) Grand Spectrum cobalt jewels are still pretty expensive in LHL (5-6 chaos). This means that gearing up can be pretty difficult. On the other hand, pretty much all of the starter uniques needed for the build are quite cheap.

4) I'd recommend, at least for starting, swapping out one of the Doedre's for a voideye. You get a lot of extra ES this way when you use it with discipline.

4) The biggest issue I have with this build is how late it comes online. I'm pretty sure (depending on your tree) you need to be in the 79-81 range before you can get reasonably comfortable (I died before then). Due to the quadratic scaling of the Grand Spectrum jewels, the build gets substantially better even as you inch towards 100, which is probably not a desirable feature (you'd rather have all of your core points/jewels in place by the mid-80s). You are quite squishy until level 80 or so, and not really strong until 90. You will need to have friends help to make leveling tolerable.

5) If I hadn't died and had the opportunity to finish this build, I would have probably gone voideye/shavronne's revelation/presense of chayula for the jewelry. While this gives up the cursing setup, it adds a ton of surivability and increases both the ES from discipline and mana by a reasonable amount.

Anyways, thanks for the build guide and comments to all who have provided input. I'm still a bit salty over ripping, but if I can get over it I'll give this another shot.

1) You can get Leadership node, not a bad idea, the problem is the level/point hungry this builds is, to counter the aoe nerf a bit you can get % quality on gems (thats a little costly) and with aura gem levels like you said but is a workaround (we can discuss that if Psychic he is the mastermind xD, when he come back).

2) some aura nodes are neglected so you can get more grand spectrum jewels, there's some comments on the guide about Unwavering faith bonus too ^^, about ZO and some changes is commented on the **What's New** 2.6.

3) Did you mean LHC? Igai said the same, sad =\, 6~8c each right? (should call your partner to help getting this GS bad boys) Grand Spectrum starts to shine after 6~8 Jewel allocated.

4) interesting idea

4) Yep, its getter better later, level after level, cause of the scaling of GS jewels, like you said, (around 325 es on the 9 GS Jewel, around 400 on the 10 and so on, depending on your total mana), maybe some tweaking make you online early, around 80~85, but with Solaris Loraci and some GS's you can go fine 80~85, i dont know about hardcore, only play SC :(, you can level with flameblast and use the 24 quests refund points.

5) I Like to use at least double curse, really strong in the defensive side Enfeeble + Temporal chains.

If you try agains share your experience with us, Thank you Pseudo.

"

Igai wrote:

Can someone give me any tips what i should upgrade next?

Im playing Legacy HC!

Spoiler

Getting Vaal Haste and Vaal Disc today.

Also i DONT have any of the Grand Spectrum Jewels yet. Since they are expensive :(

Mostly gonna map with an Ele Buzzsaw friend soon.
How should i spend my income next?

i can try to help you giving some ideas to you later, going to play with my friend right now, dammit Expensive GS jewels :(, we can discuss your next income too (btw can't see the guardian in your character profile).

"

Pseudorandominator wrote:

I just wanted to comment and say what a fantastic build this was. I've played a slight variation on this build up until this evening in hardcore legacy (RIP, dangerous rogue exile at a bad time) and it's been fantastic. Some comments from my experience:

1) I'd strongly suggest taking the leadership node. The AOE nerf has hit auras pretty hard. Even when I had all of the aura area of effect nodes, radiant faith still had more range than the auras (although my auras were not level 20 yet).

Yeah, that's a good point. The whole point of skipping the leadership node was because there was no point in your auras exceeding your guardian bonuses, if you're short with the AoE nerfs, might need to pick it up. I'll do some testing in standard when I get a chance, maybe quality gems can make the difference (although that's a lot of work just to save 1 skill point).

"

Pseudorandominator wrote:

2) Aura effects apply to the unwavering faith bonus. I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere in this forum (although I could have missed it), but this means that you (and allies!) get an absolutely insane amount of regen and physical damage reduction due to this ascendancy. This build already takes it in the most recent update, but note that ZO should be a no-brainer due to this. This is another reason to take all of the aura nodes (some of which are neglected in the guide) including the leadership node.

This is not true through my testing, and also the wiki for Unwavering Faith states: "Note: Because Unwavering Faith is a (hidden) buff and not an aura, the amount of physical damage reduction and life regeneration granted cannot be further enhanced by the Guardian's Aura Effect stat."

"

Pseudorandominator wrote:

3) Grand Spectrum cobalt jewels are still pretty expensive in LHL (5-6 chaos). This means that gearing up can be pretty difficult. On the other hand, pretty much all of the starter uniques needed for the build are quite cheap.

Also this guide had an effect on the prices of the jewel when I made it, which surprised me. It turns out the jewel is quite rare, and the price stayed low just because there was nearly 0 demand. I tried to state that the biggest drawback was high level requirement and kinda felt bad when I saw jewel prices rise xD.

"

Pseudorandominator wrote:

4) I'd recommend, at least for starting, swapping out one of the Doedre's for a voideye. You get a lot of extra ES this way when you use it with discipline.

I think I'd rather have another curse than like, 40 more base ES (level 23 discipline instead of level 20 discipline from alpha's with a level 18 gem)

"

Pseudorandominator wrote:

4) The biggest issue I have with this build is how late it comes online. I'm pretty sure (depending on your tree) you need to be in the 79-81 range before you can get reasonably comfortable (I died before then). Due to the quadratic scaling of the Grand Spectrum jewels, the build gets substantially better even as you inch towards 100, which is probably not a desirable feature (you'd rather have all of your core points/jewels in place by the mid-80s). You are quite squishy until level 80 or so, and not really strong until 90. You will need to have friends help to make leveling tolerable.

Yeah I tried to list that as the only major drawback, although I didn't really have that many problems doing white transmuted maps at level 70 with a solaris lorica and 4k es honestly, I did have friends with good builds =P.

"

Pseudorandominator wrote:

5) If I hadn't died and had the opportunity to finish this build, I would have probably gone voideye/shavronne's revelation/presense of chayula for the jewelry. While this gives up the cursing setup, it adds a ton of surivability and increases both the ES from discipline and mana by a reasonable amount.

I really don't think voideye does much. You would get much better return by wearing a good rare ring that has 20% ES and 50 int for another 10% ES. Yes shavronne's revelation is crazy good along with presence (and the new foible) and both amulets are good options now that we have room for Kiara's Determination flask with ZO on tree. I don't think dropping curses for survivability is a poor choice, I just personally prefer the curses for the nasty bosses, and think it's slightly better overall. It's very debatable though.

"

Pseudorandominator wrote:

Anyways, thanks for the build guide and comments to all who have provided input. I'm still a bit salty over ripping, but if I can get over it I'll give this another shot.

You're welcome! Sorry you got ripped. The build is even better in 2.6 with ZO on tree and more options for amulet, and in 3.0 with chain stun immunity from Pantheon system it'll get even better!

"

Igai wrote:

Can someone give me any tips what i should upgrade next?

Im playing Legacy HC!

Spoiler

Getting Vaal Haste and Vaal Disc today.

Also i DONT have any of the Grand Spectrum Jewels yet. Since they are expensive :(

Mostly gonna map with an Ele Buzzsaw friend soon.
How should i spend my income next?

I don't see the character in your profile (sorry if it ripped), but I think all of your gear seems solid enough, it's definitely time to invest in those GS jewels. Using solaris lorica is more accaptible in this build because we have such good base ES that we don't miss the shav's as much, but because you don't have the GS jewels your ES pool is probably very scary low. I would absolutely fill out the jewels, then move on to getting a +1 curse foible to fill out quad curse (you'll need a teammate to apply the 4th curse as you can only apply 3), and then save up for the big 6L shav's. Maybe boots with 30 movespeed and some decent int belt/gloves if you can find them along the way for cheap =P.

Thanks for the responses everyone. This has been really insightful.

"

This is not true through my testing, and also the wiki for Unwavering Faith states: "Note: Because Unwavering Faith is a (hidden) buff and not an aura, the amount of physical damage reduction and life regeneration granted cannot be further enhanced by the Guardian's Aura Effect stat."

Ugh. I wish the wiki had been updated to this state before the league started. I had assumed it worked like commander of darkness (for which aura effect does enhance the bonus), since the text on the two nodes is virtually identical. "Auras you cast grant...." Thanks for pointing this out though!

"

Also this guide had an effect on the prices of the jewel when I made it, which surprised me. It turns out the jewel is quite rare, and the price stayed low just because there was nearly 0 demand. I tried to state that the biggest drawback was high level requirement and kinda felt bad when I saw jewel prices rise xD.

I was at one point tracking the number of these jewels that got added to poe.trade every day. It was depressingly small. Due to the rarity of the gems, I'm not surprised if even tens of people running this build could result in sky-high prices for these gems, which seems to be what happened here. Also, view this as a compliment--your guide has good content and is well written.

However, I probably wouldn't try this build again in a temporary league due to the cost of the jewels (they're 10c at this point), unless something comes around that I suspect will make grand spectrums less popular (which may happen in 3.0, so who knows).

"

I think I'd rather have another curse than like, 40 more base ES (level 23 discipline instead of level 20 discipline from alpha's with a level 18 gem)

If you're running a CoH setup, then definitely. I was trying to deal a little bit of damage, so the extra curse couldn't really be used. You can also use voideye before you get to alpha's howl. It's great for surviving things like cruel malachai (where 70 or so base energy shield makes a huge difference).

I'm curious if you can do anything approaching this build without grand spectrums, but I suspect it would be difficult. Anyways, thanks for responding. It has been a pleasure.

"

Pseudorandominator wrote:

I'm curious if you can do anything approaching this build without grand spectrums, but I suspect it would be difficult. Anyways, thanks for responding. It has been a pleasure.

Actually, yes, the initial concept that inspired this build was Ruz's Mana Guardian. It was based on stacking lots of %mana from the tree while getting as much flat mana as possible on gear. This could theoretically net you the same 10k mana that my build did, but you need near perfect gear to do so, as realistically you'll end up around 8k unless you have tier 1 mana and int on every slot, plus you don't have quite all of the aura support mine does because things like alpha's significantly cut into your mana.

When the grand spectrums were released Ruz made a version based on nabbing like 17 of those slots or something, which easily hit 20k mana, but required a lot of other support aspects to be sacrificed, so I initially discarded the GS jewels and tried to make a more balanced version of the original concept that had about 7k mana and full support ability. It was my friend cyyylon that proved to me that hybrid approach was actually superior in the end. I don't think I have that old non-GS tree anymore, but I could probably take a look if you were that interested.

I just want to say that I am absolutely loving this build. I am in hardcore and chose to go a little safer route with only going tri-curse and using Presence over Eye of Chayula. At level 87, I have 9.5k ES and insane defences. I still have 1 more Grand Spectrum to socket in a few levels, then %mana nodes the rest of the way. I chose to self cast enduring cry to give my party consistent endurance charges as well.

Here is my current gear at level 87 in LHC:

I tested kiara's determination flask as anti-stun, and did some math on the tree and item changes, and I've gone through and done lots of little updates so it should be fully updated for 2.6 now (take special note of amulet, belt, flask changes). The only thing missing is new screenshots, since I'm still working on buying all the gear to prove the math I did, but it's difficult because nobody plays standard. Side note: if anyone has the new atziri's foible with +1 curse on it in standard I'm buying =P.

"

Shenanafrazzle wrote:

I just want to say that I am absolutely loving this build. I am in hardcore and chose to go a little safer route with only going tri-curse and using Presence over Eye of Chayula. At level 87, I have 9.5k ES and insane defences. I still have 1 more Grand Spectrum to socket in a few levels, then %mana nodes the rest of the way. I chose to self cast enduring cry to give my party consistent endurance charges as well.

Here is my current gear at level 87 in LHC:

Solid stuff man! I think if I was going to drop to tri-curse though, I'd pick up an amulet with like 35% ES on it and just use kiara's determination flask and get chaos res on boots/gloves/belt. Might be hard to put together all those pieces at the drop of a hat though.