[2.6] SignalShot™ CI Full Ele Conversion TS/Barrage / Shaper & Uber Deathless / with video!

Geeez .. pretty scaring what i read here in the last pages.

Guys, first of all, this is NOT a league starter build!
If you play in legacy league, make a caster, farm exalts until your fingers glow and then Level a ranger. This build needs some currency to work, thats it.
Every bloody bow build wants a death Opus now, so don't even think about it ...

2nd thing, this build lives from Vinktar.
Thats it, no discuss, even non legacy vinktar is a must have.
Pathfinder, and nothing else.


Anyway, i wonder why you dont use a taste of hate instead of Silver Flask?
With the flask effect nodes it should offer a huge amount of additional damage and a nice physical mitigation of ~ 22%
The new version of Auxium seems to be interesting too

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Rupenus wrote:

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giully wrote:

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Rupenus wrote:

"Gain 10% of Physical Damage as Extra Damage of a random Element", this is simply 10% more damage too,

10% physical damage added as ele damage and "increased damage" are different stuff bro.

one modifies the base damage and increases it - > increased damage; -it doesnt touch to the base damage!-

the other one directly modifies your base damage, enlarges it and all "increaed damage" modifiers modifies this enlarged damage pool. in short: thisdirectly modifies your base damage pool!- i'll tell you how:

10% physical damage added as ele damage just makes your 100 base damage become 110, then all the "increased damage" modifiers modify your damage.

example below:

100 phys base damage with 200% increased damage becomes 300,

100 phys damage and 200% increased damage with "10% physical damage added as ele damage" is 330 damage, 30 of it is ele dmg.

> btw i'm civil engineer - static building designer. i wouldnt be very cocky while talking about math if i were you. : )

The wording on that ascendency node makes it pretty clear that it scales like an added fire damage support gem/hatred/hoa/ptl/toh etc. And since we have like 200% added dmg already the 10% extra would result in aprox. 3% more damage. Do you have any confirmation that it does not work like that?

edit: Path of Building seems to confirm my statement

edit2: Since you always seem to make these little calculation to help the understanding about the sacling let me do that too:

If we have 100 phys base dmg that we conver via ptl and signal fire we get 100 conversion to ele and 60% of our phys dmg as extra elemental dmg (30% signal fire + 21/20 used for this calculation) we end up with 160 dmg. If we now add vet Bowyer we get 10% of our base dmg as elemental dmg extra (the wording seems to be exact same as all the other sources of extra dmg as ele) we get an additonal 10 (and not 16) damage as elemental making it 170 in total. Even for this calculation were we dont use half of the other sources of extra dmg its clear that its not 10% more but way less.

edit3: I removed the last paragraph cuz it was about as dumb as the "hurr durr im an enginee" comment from you

no problem, your math is correct there.

i'm trying to show people a direction, you critisize the finger, this is called ad hominem. anyway,

it is still 10% more damage in comparison to the flat untouched damage. (the examples i have given were very basic stuff and signal fire or phys to light werent included there, thats why i didnt see any problem of using more% damage in my wording there while explaining added damage as X) 6.66%~ more damage in this scenario(simply 10 is 160's %6.66, it is still not 100% correct approach i know), this can get lower, this can get more with different setups.

that guy thought 10% phys damage added as X elemental damage is same as "increased damage" the whole thing i was trying to explain was that. i didnt care to give exact numbers since they would change with every different build. for example i said 10% pen gives 10-15% more damage, is the maximum benefit you can get from 10% pen exactly 15%? of course not, these are approximate numbers so they can make you think about how things work. maybe 14-maybe 15, maybe 11, if anybody is very enthusiastic about it, you are welcome to do the math fitting your gear and numbers.

10% pen, 10% added as X, isnt 21% either. it can be 21% in some scenario, might get 17%, maybe for some build 15%, i dont know. all these numbers are changing for every character/gear. the idea remains same there, pathfinder tooltip dps is misleading and always lower than what actually it is due to pen mechanic and hidden ele addition.

verdict:

it seems i should be more careful with my wording

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Rupenus wrote:

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1mark wrote:

Can this build work has league starter in Hardcore?
how it perform vs Reflect?

reflect is not an issue but i'd use rearguard and convert the damage to light + 40% cold(new passives) if i were you. rearguard is a must in HC with this build.

Have you ever played this build in HC, or just talking nonsense? :D
I've done two signal shot builds in Breach HC, see my earlier posts in this thread. And I sure as hell didn't use rearguard.

Only way to play this build properly in HC is as elementalist IMO. You don't kill yourself to reflect even when using Barrage, and it helps with the penetration issues, too.
Less dmg of course, but still enough...

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therealjcool wrote:

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Rupenus wrote:

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1mark wrote:

Can this build work has league starter in Hardcore?
how it perform vs Reflect?

reflect is not an issue but i'd use rearguard and convert the damage to light + 40% cold(new passives) if i were you. rearguard is a must in HC with this build.

Have you ever played this build in HC, or just talking nonsense? :D
I've done two signal shot builds in Breach HC, see my earlier posts in this thread. And I sure as hell didn't use rearguard.

Only way to play this build properly in HC is as elementalist IMO. You don't kill yourself to reflect even when using Barrage, and it helps with the penetration issues, too.
Less dmg of course, but still enough...

well as HC player, i felt like he can min-max his dps according to the HC standards, reflect and all that. is reflect an issue? in a 100% conversion build that question is kinda pointless cause most of the time it is, you deal full ele damage. but is there a way to handle reflect with this build? yes. thats what i ment there. i will play this build as elementalist too in new league by the way

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Rupenus wrote:

this build has no dps problem, our problem is establishing a good survivability and flask sustainability. that's why we don't make this build with raider.

1- Quality of life: Flask management

Reason 2: Pathfinder tooltip dps is always misleading:

Thanks Rupenus I really appreciate the in depth answer! I am trying to get my bearings after primarily playing melee/BV builds the last league and a half so I am looking forward to trying this out. I try to min max and look at all of the options so I'm glad you were able to lead me in the right direction :)

(cut most out to not spam the page. His full answer is on pg169 if you want to look at this in the future)

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Rupenus wrote:

well as HC player, i felt like he can min-max his dps according to the HC standards, reflect and all that. is reflect an issue? in a 100% conversion build that question is kinda pointless cause most of the time it is, you deal full ele damage. but is there a way to handle reflect with this build? yes. thats what i ment there. i will play this build as elementalist too in new league by the way

Yeah, same.
I've worked out two possible tree viariations for me, first one uses Lioneye's fall to convert claw noodes and Energy from within to convert Blood Drinker & related nodes into ES (that's 30% increased ES with a 5% jewel):


2nd one is more or less how I played it last league:


I do like the extra ES and grabbing the new Force of nature from the first tree, am wondering though how much not having Alchemist will hurt in endgame...

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Rupenus wrote:

that guy thought 10% phys damage added as X elemental damage is same as "increased damage"

No one thought that.

Hi Guys,

After 100+ hours of /played till i came back on poe, i finaly killed Shaper and uberatziri. Thx to your build.

I didnt go on a budget. Most of my currencies went to this build (200+ex i think). Maybe i could have kill them before and for less currencies but i m quite bad in this kind of game.

A lot of fun, thx for all the tips you all gave me to upgrade my stuff.

With my final stuff, i sit at 33 501 for barrage in ho, and 57 272 for ts.
Obvouisly shaper didnt die in a sec, but anyway, it was more challenging to kill him with this low dps.

My stuff :

Hiho

i know a lot of ppl already asked this but how good will this perform as a league starter build?
I ask this again cause everyone is different in how fast he can get going with a build.

Let's say it has to perform decently up to tier 10 maps with 1-2ex budget and then with around 10ex(15 would be ok too but i think i hardly get more cause i get lazy when i reach a certain point) possible tier 16 maps?


And i will probably NEVER get skyforth.....as i said too lazy to farm constantly over some months....is it still worth doing that build?


Thx for answers :)


€dit: Is it ok leveling too or better use some of the "standart" level skills?

And last league i used the "King of the forest build" if anyone did that too maybe could you compare these builds for me?:)

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Rupenus wrote:

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léno wrote:

ok , blasting , and death's opus are better than harbinger crafted ?

at page 167, i did a comparison between leg reach - deaths opus and best mirrored bow. you can check from there.

if i'll get a 420 pdps bow, i'll try that too.

I've got a 390+ DPS Harb and a perfect Death's Opus and the Harb is by far more powerful IMHO. Both 6L, and although you do add more projectiles to Barrage, the DPS difference IMHO is much too large to compare. Death's Opus is smoother in the sense it has faster attack speed. I think a 350+ DPS Harb is where Harbs start feeling better. Just my opinion and limited testing yesterday :)