Balance Changes in Content Update 2.1.0

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raics wrote:

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Yggdrasil_57 wrote:

I can understand if you don't want to use an existing item when it become legacy. It's strange but understandable.

Think of it like this, if I use my legacy items I'm not experiencing the game the way it was designed any more. If somebody complains that Lightning Coil is a bit underwhelming, what kind of comment can I offer on that if I'm using a legacy one? It's something like playing a game that isn't completely up to date, I don't think it's too strange.

It's perfectly understandable that purists want to play the game in the current meta (however temporary leagues are more appropriate than standard for that).
In the same time I think strange that in a power levelling game, someone deliberately want to make himself less powerful.

That said, if you really want to experience the actual gameplay, I'm pretty sure you can find people who happily trade a new LC in exchange for your legacy one (and you should even earn some exalts during the transaction).

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Yggdrasil_57 wrote:

That said, if you really want to experience the actual gameplay, I'm pretty sure you can find people who happily trade a new LC in exchange for your legacy one (and you should even earn some exalts during the transaction).

Nah, didn't feel right to profit on a screwup made by third party so they ended up mostly given away to buddies over the years, kept only few as a reminder to the old alchemist proverb 'you never know when will lead become gold, except when it announces so in advance'.

As a side note, it's kinda funny, the chief argument of legacists versus newcomers back in the day was 'you got no legacy items yourself, hurr durr'. This time we got a timely warning, anybody can afford to roll all the crit flasks he will ever need and the reaction is still prevalently negative so there goes the argument.

Might seem strange but people do care about shit like that. It shouldn't really concern you if your neighbor collects trash in his backyard as long as he keeps it sanitary, it's his trash and his backyard but it still tends to feel wrong. It's a bit worse here, though, it's your neighbor's trash but your backyards may overlap a bit at some time or the other.

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Yggdrasil_57 wrote:

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Langhun wrote:

Now tell me what do you like about legacy items? What is their value? Why keep items the same when builds and everything else changed anyway? Why keep them in game when we don't need them?

Fair questions.
I'm an old POE player like yourself, I've slowly acquired some sweet legacy items through my journey in Wraeclast. Almost all of them were selffound, and I trully cherish most of them. For me, they reward my seniority and my loyalty toward this game. I'm feeling special when wearing them or just looking at them in my stash. And with them I can play some funny builds, like using Righteous Fire with a legacy Saffel's Frame instead of Rise of the Phoenix like everybody else.
Remove them from me and you remove something special. It would not be just like removing a pile of exalts from my stash, it would be removing my history as a PoE player.


And what about you Langhun ? Why do you want so much remove legacy items ? You're an ancient player yourself, you should have a lot of legacy stuff. I can understand if you don't want to use an existing item when it become legacy. It's strange but understandable. But why deprive the others from their legacy ? Knowing that other players possess legacy items bothers you so much ?

Fair enough.
I would like to play one game. When I use legacy item I feel like I am not legit player because my character performance was affected by "unexisting item". When I tried to pretend that legacy don't exist I realized it affects economy, PvP and public party play anyway. I simply prefer "legit game". As I am tolerant with many legacy uniques I completely disagree with legacies produced by change of game mechanics. For example block nerf across the board. If this suppost to be only necessary evil to mitigate hate rage then it's not in my opinion healthy for the game itself.

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raics wrote:

Might seem strange but people do care about shit like that. It shouldn't really concern you if your neighbor collects trash in his backyard as long as he keeps it sanitary, it's his trash and his backyard but it still tends to feel wrong. It's a bit worse here, though, it's your neighbor's trash but your backyards may overlap a bit at some time or the other.

A better comparison would be neighbor A collecting golden apple trees in his backyard, while neighbor B is stuck with normal trees. The matter is not the smell, nor trash overlapping backyards.
So why complaining about neighbour having a more beautiful garden ?
Perhaps the unavowable reason is simply jealousy. An hidden jealousy which brings some immature response like the "you got no legacy items yourself, hurr durr" argument that you have mentionned.

I don't say every player who want legacy items removed from the game is jealous. But if GGG suddenly offers to every player a copy of each legacy item, I bet the anti-legacy crowd would be a lot more silent.

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Langhun wrote:

I would like to play one game. When I use legacy item I feel like I am not legit player because my character performance was affected by "unexisting item".

I know it won't help you but you have to either accept using legacy items or don't using them.

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Langhun wrote:

When I tried to pretend that legacy don't exist I realized it affects economy, PvP and public party play anyway.

Standard economy is already broken. Removing legacy won't repair it. If GGG creates a new dumpster league without any legacy item, it would be saturated by orbs and items in few years.
PvP is a side event in PoE. GGG won't balance the game around PvP. And I think PvP ladder is much more affected by mirrored gears than by legacy.

Concerning playing public party, I readily admit that playing with way owerpowered players could be not fun. But is there a so great difference between a legacy and a not legacy item ?
If one of you playmate wears a legacy Lightninc Coil instead of a new one, will it really kill you joy of playing with him ? In this hypothetic situation, I couldn't notice what kind of LC he's using.

And what about mirrored items ? Is it more fun if one of your teammates use this instead of a legacy windripper (for example) ?
Let's be honnest, a mirrored bow like Brood Twine is much more powerful than any legacy bow. Should GGG banned all mirrored items too ?

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NeroNoah wrote:

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Astarte911 wrote:

If i see buffs and nerfs, i always have this in mind:

Spoiler

it seems you going from mu = 6 to mu = 1 ;))

yy, i know, path of exile is of course not a linear time-invariant system :D!

Good to see other physicists/engineers out there, :P

Actually in-game mu=6 is better than mu=1 because if "1" is the point that we want to be there the mu=6 is there (even if thats a fraction of second) while mu=1 stays always under "overnerfed".

Outcome that is achieved with time stays nearly the same so clearly:
Early: late:
mu6>mu1 mu6=mu1

Mu6 wins

Just some mathematic-statistic approach :P

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Langhun wrote:

Fair enough.
I would like to play one game. When I use legacy item I feel like I am not legit player because my character performance was affected by "unexisting item". When I tried to pretend that legacy don't exist I realized it affects economy, PvP and public party play anyway. I simply prefer "legit game". As I am tolerant with many legacy uniques I completely disagree with legacies produced by change of game mechanics. For example block nerf across the board. If this suppost to be only necessary evil to mitigate hate rage then it's not in my opinion healthy for the game itself.

i've met now multiple posts of yours about the legacy items, now listen to this:

Mjölner used to be very hard to get for example, people who wanted it had to farm long months to get it, now you can farm a Mjölner together in 3 days lol, so should the legacy Mjölner owner's long months of work be destroyed just cause a guy who worked 3 days for a Mjölner doesn't like the fact the legacy one is better????? And you know, on the market they're still selling legacy Mjölners, but wait, the new player doesn't want to farm long months for it like the legacy owner did, just destroy the legacy owner's work and item....... is that a joke?????

1) If surgeon flasks are deemed to strong, why not retroactively patch them ? I really don't get why there is that irresistible urge to create yet another legacy elite item. Time to buy another 6 stashes and fill them with surgeons ?! Thanks for the heads-up, I guess.

2) What about Animate Weapon (and Summon Skeletons for that matter) ? ...

3) Mana Cost for spells ? (i.e. aforementioned Animate Weapon)

Still looking forward to it, as the rest sounds great. :)

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Perq wrote:

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Rory wrote:

Summon Raging Spirits (Early-game Buff/Late-game Nerf for certain characters)
Raging Spirits have been completely rebalanced, with a faster cast speed, longer duration, and greatly improved AI. This makes it much easier to hit the limit on the number of Raging Spirits available at once. The damage has also been adjusted to compensate.

Hmmm, ok, well, yeah. SRS was OP, nothing new.

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Rory wrote:

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Rory? I think you have forgotten about something. There is one more summoner skill. Oh yes...

SUMMON SKELETONS PLEASE?!

Why this skill is getting ignored all the time... : / This has to be like 3rd post about summoner changes in a row, that talks about summoner changes, but totally ignores Skeletons as a summoner skill... FREAKIN SKELETONS! The most basic, cliche summoner skill of them all. Why?!

I DEMAND ANSWERS!

(well, not really, but this is kind of funny to me... don't judge me)

Spectres lost when disconnected, animate weapons lost when changing maps...

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Z_K_R wrote:

i've met now multiple posts of yours about the legacy items, now listen to this:

Mjölner used to be very hard to get for example, people who wanted it had to farm long months to get it, now you can farm a Mjölner together in 3 days lol, so should the legacy Mjölner owner's long months of work be destroyed just cause a guy who worked 3 days for a Mjölner doesn't like the fact the legacy one is better????? And you know, on the market they're still selling legacy Mjölners, but wait, the new player doesn't want to farm long months for it like the legacy owner did, just destroy the legacy owner's work and item....... is that a joke?????

And what about Items, that have lost value because of mechanic changes like:
CoE
CoD
Shavronne's Wrappings

Why should owner of that items suffer and the owner of other items that got lagecy not?
I don't see the point...

Nerfing surgeon's flasks, but not retroactively, sounds like a singularly HORRIBLE idea to me. Nerfing them retroactively is not at all analogous to nerfing uniques retroactively, so why not do it?

Now, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, so I'd love to see GGG's reasoning behind this decision. If it's solid, I will happily back down from my statement.

As it is, we have a whole crapload of players who will now create a bunch of surgeon's flasks. So any problems caused by their presence in the game that you were trying to solve will not go away at all. All you are doing is widening the wealth gap between old and new players. While I agree that there should be a gap (older players have had more time to accumulate wealth, after all), I cannot agree with server-side adjustments that artificially increase this gap.