Map Changes in 2.0.4

"Level" change to "tier" is WAY MORE confusing.

OK, after some more thought, some specific comments:


Map drops:

I still do not understand why high-level maps would be run through Zana mostly, since she doesn't offer high level maps in the first place.

A buff in map drops is highly appreciated, I hope the "slightly" can actually be felt.

Furthermore, just buffing map drops still does not or only slightly address any of the following problems:

- Map drops feel unrewarding because you do not feel more map drops from harder maps. The variance is very very high, and good/bad luck streaks can last very long. They only even out after 100s to 1000s of maps, something that most people do not have the time to wait for. Solution could be to use an entropy-based system like for evasion or something similar.
- The chances for (fast) upgrades to the map pool are very low. As a consequence of this and the point above, rebuilding your map pool once you drop back to 73s/74s or 75s takes very very long, for a casual player (10 hours per week, which is actually already quite a lot) it will take weeks. Solution could be to allow +2 map drops from rares and maybe even +3 map drops from map bosses again, while retaining the overall average maps played at endgame. Would also feel great to get more +2 and even +3 map drops.
- For single players, mapping is still a lot harder and getting actually any lvl 80+ maps is just very hard because you cannot really maintain the costs for the Zana mods. I have seen I think 3 lvl 80+ maps so far (not using Zana mods because too expensive), 2 of them dropped from Uber Atziri runs and only one dropped actually from a "normal" map. Solution could be to make Zana mods a per-portal-cost (or something like e.g. 4c for the first portal and 2c for each additional portal).


Map Difficulty:

Sounds great! Some of the act 4 monsters (Rakangos) are actually pretty hard and also have a lot of HP. I just hope with the map drop changes I will not keep being stuck in 75/76 maps which then are even more of a faceroll.


Map symbol colors:

That is very nice and welcome. Not a big change, but useful.


Map levels are now tiers:

This is weird. First, it feels like you are covering up a deeper problem instead of addressing the problem. Second, the map level determines the item level, and items come with item levels and not tiers. And I want to know the item level dropping in a map without having to do calculations in my head. Now, for me that is not that bad, but how shall a new player understand that system? Its.... weird. And not helping.


Experience in top maps:

Going in the right direction if you want to make the grind to lvl 100 harder (or keep it hard) while reducing the impact of this top-level decision on the rest of the community, most of which don't care about getting to lvl 100. Cannot really give feedback on the hardness of the grind to 100 because I am not part of that game. But good move to at least go into the direction of separating the issue of "players are getting to 100 too fast" and access to content (I want to play all the content of the game to have played it, not to get to lvl 100).


Ground effects on maps:

Thanks. If this makes things better, that will be sooooo good.



EDIT:

The more I think of it, the more I dislike the change to map "tiers". BTW, players will still be confused why they have to fight lvl 75 monsters at character level 90+, once they find out that the monsters they are fighting in the tier-too-lazy-to-compute map are actually level 75.

maps drop were allready much higher than before 2.0
not needed to buff them even more

"slightly lower than were happy with"

Yea, ive found one level 81+ map in all of warbands playing around 100+ hours.
this is after chiseling, alching, and vaaling almost every map and doing all the bosses with the exception of wasteland..

you know what the level 81 dropped? Two level 69 maps.

never been so disappointed with your map drops in 2.0 , i have given up on trying to find/waste currency rolling top tier maps and now im stuck at 75 as my highest.

Finally. All that time trying to translate map levels into tier levels. You get that level 75 map and it's like "yeh I see it is level 75, but whet tier level is it? 7? 8? Got to get that calculator or check dang wiki again..." About time the tier levels were just put on em.

i like everything about the changes except the new "tier" system. It doesn't make newer players to understand the map system. What does playing at a "tier 13 map" mean? It just creates more confusion about the level players are playing at.

there is one problem... if I corrupt level 82 map... there is no posible way to get + 1 level of map via curruption, and that is one thing that is not correct, there sould be only one level 83 map that could only be achieved via corruption same as it was before... GGG u missed that part... and that is just sad... :( (sry for bad english)

Hard to criticize before trying the new system, but as others have said I think the tier system is not going to make any more sense than the current system and will not work out to be honest. Just put the level range on the map for optimal exp gain or recommended character levels and keep the map lvl for the monster levels visible on the map.

Unless you are now going to have a range of monster levels in the tiered maps, so a tier 1 for instance would have monster lvl 66-69 or something like that. That could actually make things a little more interesting, but at the same time this would only be okay if maps that drop are only one tier up or down from the current tier being run. Because as GGG should know by now there is no one that likes being in lvl 77+ maps and having a bunch of 68's dropping. Its understandable that you want the highest of lvl maps to not be sustainable but you can just as easily have the 1 tier up or down method and in the highest of tiers make it less likely to get the 1 tier up drops. Or even at a certain point have it go to 1 tier up or 2 tiers down at the 2nd highest level.

Anyway rant aside, we will just have to see how this map system feels and then hopefully GGG listens to our input after that.

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Psyringe wrote:

Nice to see work on the maps, but the statements in the OP seem to be aimed at actually making the game less enjoyable, or maybe I'm understanding them wrong.

"High level maps run through Zana" is a mystery to me since Zana doesn't offer any high level maps in the first place.

Reducing the perceived need for high-level maps by even further increasing the grind level seems rather backwards to me.

Relabeling the map levels into tiers looks like a cover-up rather than a solution to a problem. So now there still won't be adequate content for high level players, they still will get massive XP gain penalties even on the highest level maps, they will have to grind even more than before, and it somehow should feel better because now the maps are labeled with "tiers" instead of "levels"? I'm afraid the only logic that I can see in that would require a rather cynical attitude on behalf of GGG, and I don't really want to believe that.

What I'm taking away from this announcement, is that GGG remains very focused on keeping high-profile players inside the grinding wheel, while continually making the game less attractive for people like me. Not sure if that was the intention, but it's the impression I get. :(

I love the character builds, the skill tree, even maps. I like running unique maps with friends or random people to have a good time. Hall of the grandmasters, love it, but it seems like the gas is running out. With the new release of content that I very much enjoy, it has little effect on the end game grind. I would like something simple integrated, such as a survival arena with waves of random enemies spawning. It seems the random map generation isn't enough anymore to switch things up.

"Level" change to "tier" sounds WAY MORE confusing. Especially considering you've gone through 60+ levels and 3 difficulties with "zone levels" by this point. I think people get it. this is whats gonna happen.

"lets do a map"
"ok, what level?"
"uhh tier 7"
"uhh, what level zone is that?"
"idk, go look it up"
"sigh"


and we have to resort to wiki for yet another confusing mechanic :/

Also makes determining ilvl of drops from maps... zzzzz