Master Crafting Metamods

"

Sunflow wrote:

"

Cipp wrote:

I have to say that I'm really disappointed with GGG now.

The expansion was great. The new content is good and the new build options were refreshing. I even think that the new meta-crafting options are great.

But the attitude of this reply by Chris makes me want to quit this game.

Quarls attempt to counter missinformation was commendable. It was a stand against scamming players with false info. A fair thing to do. But removing the post was disastrous. Not only did it leave the false info in place, it also gave a potentially huge advantage to a random sect of players that happened to see the comment. It gave a massive benefit based purely on luck. It is not really all that different from an advantage gained though the use of RMT.

That was bad, but we all make mistakes. The really disapointing thing happened after that initial mistakes.

GGG knew people were using the metamods. They knew why the exalt price was high. They knew that some players were using these metamods to craft high-end gear and making a killing. They knew that at least some of these players were keeping this a secret through spreading false info. And they propably understood that this meant that other players got less out of their drops and had to work harder to upgrade their gear due to inflated exalt prices.

They knew and did nothing. And now they say there is no problem and everything worked as intended. That there is an incentive to scam other players so you should expect to get scammed. Everything was working as intended.

The market was not broken because the market is about change anyways. The market works if there are people on the market and that is all.

But what is the point with such a market? A simulation? Something to study? Wasn't the point of having a market that it did something for the game, not the other way around? Wasn't the point that the market would enable players to make mutually beneficial deals to enhance their gameplay? To get more out of their gametime?

Now the market was used to scam people and the view is that it worked as intended. Promoting scamming is an intended feature.

That these people participating in these scams are "clever" and should be rewarded. I find this unbeliveable.

Then there is fuzzy part about the semantics of "change" and "remove". GGG must know that people interpret these words differently and you can't really expect people to know how you use them if you have not specified their use. You can't just downplay the relevance of Quarls leak. Also, due to the extreme cost of metamods, people were in a highly uneven position to test them out to begin with.

As developers you define the parameters of the market. It is not a easy thing to predict what comes out of those parameters, but you can't act as if you could not affect it. This time you chose to sanction behaviour that was bad for a big chunk of the playerbase. You should own up to this.

Clever scams based on privilidged info working as intended. Please reconsider your attitude.

I like your post, but you seem to miss a vital point in GGG's stance on why they removed Qarl's comment.

They removed it because it was against GGG's vision of how information about the game should be revealed.. it should be uncovered by the players themselves.

Carl felt it was wrong that players were misleading other players and he was right, but realized he made a mistake by breaking that vision ( or should I say policy ) mentioned above.

We all make mistakes, and they handled this one in the best way they could, trying to keep their policy intact.

"

mawcat wrote:

"

Sunflow wrote:

"

Cipp wrote:

I have to say that I'm really disappointed with GGG now.

The expansion was great. The new content is good and the new build options were refreshing. I even think that the new meta-crafting options are great.

But the attitude of this reply by Chris makes me want to quit this game.

Quarls attempt to counter missinformation was commendable. It was a stand against scamming players with false info. A fair thing to do. But removing the post was disastrous. Not only did it leave the false info in place, it also gave a potentially huge advantage to a random sect of players that happened to see the comment. It gave a massive benefit based purely on luck. It is not really all that different from an advantage gained though the use of RMT.

That was bad, but we all make mistakes. The really disapointing thing happened after that initial mistakes.

GGG knew people were using the metamods. They knew why the exalt price was high. They knew that some players were using these metamods to craft high-end gear and making a killing. They knew that at least some of these players were keeping this a secret through spreading false info. And they propably understood that this meant that other players got less out of their drops and had to work harder to upgrade their gear due to inflated exalt prices.

They knew and did nothing. And now they say there is no problem and everything worked as intended. That there is an incentive to scam other players so you should expect to get scammed. Everything was working as intended.

The market was not broken because the market is about change anyways. The market works if there are people on the market and that is all.

But what is the point with such a market? A simulation? Something to study? Wasn't the point of having a market that it did something for the game, not the other way around? Wasn't the point that the market would enable players to make mutually beneficial deals to enhance their gameplay? To get more out of their gametime?

Now the market was used to scam people and the view is that it worked as intended. Promoting scamming is an intended feature.

That these people participating in these scams are "clever" and should be rewarded. I find this unbeliveable.

Then there is fuzzy part about the semantics of "change" and "remove". GGG must know that people interpret these words differently and you can't really expect people to know how you use them if you have not specified their use. You can't just downplay the relevance of Quarls leak. Also, due to the extreme cost of metamods, people were in a highly uneven position to test them out to begin with.

As developers you define the parameters of the market. It is not a easy thing to predict what comes out of those parameters, but you can't act as if you could not affect it. This time you chose to sanction behaviour that was bad for a big chunk of the playerbase. You should own up to this.

Clever scams based on privilidged info working as intended. Please reconsider your attitude.

I like your post, but you seem to miss a vital point in GGG's stance on why they removed Qarl's comment.

They removed it because it was against GGG's vision of how information about the game should be revealed.. it should be uncovered by the players themselves.

Carl felt it was wrong that players were misleading other players and he was right, but realized he made a mistake by breaking that vision ( or should I say policy ) mentioned above.

We all make mistakes, and they handled this one in the best way they could, trying to keep their policy intact.

I think you are missing his point. Yes he is human and made a mistake, but the cat was already out of the box, the problem is that a handfull of ppl saw his post b4 it was deleted, which gave a random and completely unfair advantage..

"

Cipp wrote:

I have to say that I'm really disappointed with GGG now.

The expansion was great. The new content is good and the new build options were refreshing. I even think that the new meta-crafting options are great.

But the attitude of this reply by Chris makes me want to quit this game.

Quarls attempt to counter missinformation was commendable. It was a stand against scamming players with false info. A fair thing to do. But removing the post was disastrous. Not only did it leave the false info in place, it also gave a potentially huge advantage to a random sect of players that happened to see the comment. It gave a massive benefit based purely on luck. It is not really all that different from an advantage gained though the use of RMT.

That was bad, but we all make mistakes. The really disapointing thing happened after that initial mistakes.

GGG knew people were using the metamods. They knew why the exalt price was high. They knew that some players were using these metamods to craft high-end gear and making a killing. They knew that at least some of these players were keeping this a secret through spreading false info. And they propably understood that this meant that other players got less out of their drops and had to work harder to upgrade their gear due to inflated exalt prices.

They knew and did nothing. And now they say there is no problem and everything worked as intended. That there is an incentive to scam other players so you should expect to get scammed. Everything was working as intended.

The market was not broken because the market is about change anyways. The market works if there are people on the market and that is all.

But what is the point with such a market? A simulation? Something to study? Wasn't the point of having a market that it did something for the game, not the other way around? Wasn't the point that the market would enable players to make mutually beneficial deals to enhance their gameplay? To get more out of their gametime?

Now the market was used to scam people and the view is that it worked as intended. Promoting scamming is an intended feature.

That these people participating in these scams are "clever" and should be rewarded. I find this unbeliveable.

Then there is fuzzy part about the semantics of "change" and "remove". GGG must know that people interpret these words differently and you can't really expect people to know how you use them if you have not specified their use. You can't just downplay the relevance of Quarls leak. Also, due to the extreme cost of metamods, people were in a highly uneven position to test them out to begin with.

As developers you define the parameters of the market. It is not a easy thing to predict what comes out of those parameters, but you can't act as if you could not affect it. This time you chose to sanction behaviour that was bad for a big chunk of the playerbase. You should own up to this.

Clever scams based on privilidged info working as intended. Please reconsider your attitude.

"

haldagan wrote:

Mkay, Mr. GGG So u say it works this way (and u say it's very logical):

1) Scourge orb tries to remove mods
2) Meta-mod protects suffixes
3) As a result we got removed all mods, except suffixes (they were protected)

So... I've tried 3 times to kill a whole party of rare_monster/totem with "allies cannot die" mod and all 3 times i succeeded using flameblast (so all monsters took damage at the same time). I had no "burn" or "poison" or other DoT effects. So the game mechanics in this case works (pretty logical to me):

1) Damage tries to kill monsters
2) Rare monster with "allies cannot die" aura dies at this damage application
3) All his allies die from the same hit, because his aura is no longer in effect.


What am i trying to say?

Literal wordings in both cases are pretty similar, still in first case "status effect" "protects" "bros" before status is wore off and in the second case it doesn't.

P.S.: Sorry for poor English. My main complaint is about how Chris tries to say that it's logical in the "The purpose of Mods is to override the regular game rules" part.

"

grepman wrote:

GGG has answered this before- if it's in the game, its fair game. if you get 2 mirrors for the unid recipe, you are free to make more of mirrors.

"

grepman wrote:

no its not. it's refreshing because you cannot simply go to wiki and get full information on EVERYTHING, a click away. they want players to discover some things in-game.

"

grepman wrote:

what does leech mechanics in combat have to do with crafting and recipes ?

"

Chris wrote:

[...] When we introduce new orbs, mods, items or [crafting] systems, we don't explain how to use them. The intention is that players try them out and find out what works. We feel that's a lot more fun than us just handing you an optimal [crafting] guide. Path of Exile is all about being rewarded for being clever. [...]

"

grepman wrote:

and even if it had something to do, whats wrong with having selective recipes that are hidden ? is it a crime against humanity ? they tell us of some recipes right away when they want us to actively use them. and some they want players to discover

"

grepman wrote:

whats funny is that mod wasnt even hidden. it was there in plain sight with a hefty cost attached to it.

"

YES, this is why (a big reason of it, not all of it) that people are so frustrated and mad.