Map drops - assessment of 2.0.0, and changes coming in 2.0.2

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Qarl wrote:

The problem is much more pronounced in Standard and Warbands than Tempest. The drop rates we have seem to suit the mapping styles of hardcore more, where players are more likely to build up a base of maps, and work up through their maps, rather than always running their highest map.

Am I just being ignorant, or could this be explained by the fact that tempests give a bonus to quantity in the zones they affect? Whereas warbands give nothing in terms of map drops. Sorry if this has been brought up, but I don't have the patience to sort through dozens of pages.

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grallo wrote:

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Qarl wrote:

The problem is much more pronounced in Standard and Warbands than Tempest. The drop rates we have seem to suit the mapping styles of hardcore more, where players are more likely to build up a base of maps, and work up through their maps, rather than always running their highest map.

Am I just being ignorant, or could this be explained by the fact that tempests give a bonus to quantity in the zones they affect? Whereas warbands give nothing in terms of map drops. Sorry if this has been brought up, but I don't have the patience to sort through dozens of pages.

Yeah, the devs appear to be really, really disconnected from the reality of the game.

I think the sample size is not enough to determine if the drop rate has gotten any better or worse. At least for me it seems worse, my pool is shrinking. Could be bad luck tho.

BUT, what should absolutely not happen and is discouraging beyond belief is when a boss drops a map thats minus several levels.

Overgrown Shrine boss (lvl79) just dropped me this nice -10 levels!!! iLvl 81 map:

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Avacyn wrote:

I think the sample size is not enough to determine if the drop rate has gotten any better or worse. At least for me it seems worse, my pool is shrinking. Could be bad luck tho.

BUT, what should absolutely not happen and is discouraging beyond belief is when a boss drops a map thats minus several levels.

Overgrown Shrine boss (lvl79) just dropped me this nice -10 levels!!! iLvl 81 map:

Exactly. I have samé feeling. Is even much worse.

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RaGoNXIII wrote:

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Yggdrasil_57 wrote:

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morbo wrote:

I've done a 3hr mapping session from 75s to 78s and it seems about the same to me. Some garbage rolled 60% dropped a ton of maps and I "even" got a 79 out of a 142% Springs, but mostly it's just -2 to -5 drops...

In most cases I run 100%+ maps, which are noticeably more difficult than 60% maps, but the returns are the same.

GGG, mapping is still a senseless mess, because:

* too wide RNG variance in drops
* you over-nerfed cartoboxes (practically non-existent now)
* you totally nerfed exiles, beyond bosses, invasion bosses...
* you made Zana 8 useless
* map drops depend more on hidden parameters (seed) than parameters under player control
* map quantity = difficulty, does not influence the quality of maps dropped (see first point)
* there's way too much temporal chains & ice ground bullshit
* bugs leading to DC's & crashes

A system with great potential to deliver that difficulty-based progression ARPG fans love, messed up by weirdo economy-centric design invented by people who played D2 as a trade simulator. GGG, your shiny new offices need more ARPG players and less monopoly & gambling enthusiast.

My thoughts, exactly.

Mine too. I usually read morbo posts and agree with him 95% of the times.

I played 5x75 maps today, I know, very low sample, but my feelings are the same. Its like they changed nothing T_T...

I to agree on this. For endgamers this is a big issue! Some time should be spend on overhauling the map drop system...

so I just chilseled and chaosed 5x ridiculous lvl79 maps, rippy as it comes mods double boss vuln shocking ground village ruins and overgrown ruins, stupid maps. Ran 4 of them, this is what I got





looked at the 5th map and asked myself why am I putting myself through this? Why am I playing these retardedly rippy maps? Last map is a double boss horrific overgrown ruin 100% quant, so I said fuck it, spent 1 chaos on it, went down to 68% quant, no rippy mods at all, easy as it comes...





welcome to your bullshit map system. You will be found out guys, people will realise that rolling thier maps means absolutely nothing and we will be back to high level players alt regaling the highest tiers of maps for easy mods because they found you out and realised it doesnt mean anything. The risk vs reward is completely non existant, the currency investment is absolute waste, its a farce. The whole investment principal works off emotional blackmail, u get fuck all and feel guilt tripped into investing, and that works at first as a way of getting players to invest. Then people realise that it doesnt really matter either way, its just rng, and that they feel even worse if they actually invest rather than just alch n go. Then we go back to not investing like we always do, same cycle, map system changes, we invest, realise its bullshit, go back to not bothering.


Ran 5x huge quant necros the other day, didnt get more than a -2 out of any of them. Then I ran 5x white gorge maps just for gorge speed run lols, got a ton of +1 and same level maps back, from WHITE maps. Thats day by day, map by map, thats what I can observe as a player. The rolling maps investment risk vs reward blah blah, it doesnt work, simple as that.

For the first day after the release of the map drops, the first 3 maps I did seemed actually decent.

Now, however, I do a 78-80 map, and I get no returns, no +1, and also not even 76-77 drops. Rarely ever getting a 75 drop. Before the release of more map drops, I was actually getting better drops.

Poe, oh sweet poe. You need to relook at Map Drops for Warbands. Standard wasnt the only one needing some love. =)

I will start with the positive point:

- I have more unique maps (already run 2 Malström of chaos / 1 Acton's Nightmare and 1 Poorjoy's Asylum [ with a conquer by the redblades mods in bonus... outch that's hurts])


Now the bad one(s) :

Before the patch 2.0.2 I was able to find 76-77 maps but now It's painful. Yesterday I have run a dark forest maps (lvl 75) , kill the boss and it's drop me a rare map :



Nice reward!

I have run 2 malformation maps (lvl 76) and don't get any +2 / +1 or +0 maps but some 69 or 70 maps.

I rarely alch my maps and use more transmutation on it. I think it was that but as I read others post that don't change anything.

Only remain one lvl 76 maps. after that back to 73....

heres a thought. My observations above are sort of meaningless right? I ran 5 maps and got blah, and then these other 5 and got bleh. That doesnt really mean anything because the sample size isnt big enough, right? Anyone who seriously maps will probably agree with that. A day or mapping is not enough to make a judgement because maybe you just got unlucky here and lucky there. A few days isnt enough to be meaningful, even a week of mapping, a week is not enough to make meaningful judgements because one guy gets 10 really lucky maps in that week and another guy gets 10 really unlucky maps instead and their overall impression of the system and their ability to sustain in that time frame is entirely different as a result. So someone says I ran 10, 20, 40 maps and this is what happened... that has a very limited importance on some level. Insignificant quantity of maps run to make a judgement.


But doesnt that in itself prove somethings wrong? Doesnt that fact actually tell us something? Well you mapped for a week and felt like you got shit on, that could just be rng. Doesnt that tell us how much of the system is down to rng and how much is down to investment? Run white maps all day for 3 days, run 100% quant for 3 days, you cant expect the 100% quant to have paid off in any sort of consistent fashon, you cant expect that investment of 500+ chaos worth of currency to make any meaningful difference in the face of the amount of rng in the system. Imo that in itself is a meaningful statement about just how dysfunctional the system is imo, that says everything.

Endgame access is based on rng, and that rng can be overcome by buying access to endgame from xyz. I dont think thats healthy, at all. Im not even talking about my personal current access to content at blah blah level etc, just as an over view of the system I think thats pretty awful.

played 4h each day for 5 days, done a lot of 75/76 with 100%+ quantity + pack size..., 0 77+. Feel like i'm stuck in cruel... Ridiculous system honestly.